Second chance beer

**Reno_eNVy** · 06-17-2009, 01:28 AM

So unfortunately, the recession has finally hit my ability to brew as I wish. I've given up good food, top-tier beer and nights out on the town.... but it's finally happened to my brewing.

So second chance beers seem to be what will allow me to make more beer at less cost... I've actually heard that Keystone Light is a second chance beer of Coors Light, but that could just be urban legend. Second chance refers to, once all mashing/lautering has occured, you just dump strike water in again, mash, and drain and voila! Another beer!

I know this is completely possible, regardless of whether or not the Keystone rumor is true. I just have a couple questions for those who have done this:

1) What minimum O.G. should the original recipe be to come out with something decent for the second chance? I'd probably be down for a range of 1.028-1.040.

2) If the answer to the first question is something ridiculous like 1.100, it doesn't seem unreasonable to add some fresh grain at strike time, does it? But there's always DME as backup

Here's the recipe for the original and then the alterations for the second chance. If I need to ramp up the OG to do this, then the recipe can be easily altered:

Wheat Porter
Est. OG 1.066
IBU 34.5
color 31.1 SRM

Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 47.06 %
3.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 23.53 %
1.00 lb Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 7.84 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 7.84 %
1.00 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 7.84 %
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.92 %
0.25 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 1.96 %

1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 18.1 IBU
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 16.3 IBU
1 Pkgs Nottingham Yeast (or Wyeast #1099.... haven't decided yet)

Second chance Dunkelweizen:
- Same as above, obviously lower OG
- Likely to use a bit of Hallertauer 60min addition, then slightly more as a 30min addition
- Most likely with use Safale T-56

So, is this doable?

Acumen · 06-17-2009, 02:15 AM

I got 100% efficiency on my last batch. If I second chanced it there would be literally nothing to extract. Figure out the efficiency you are getting, and then just take that for the second time around as well. If you get 75% efficiency, then you will get an additional 18.75% (0.25 (sugar remaining) x 0.75 (efficiency)). This is the same as 1/4th of the OG of the first batch collected (0.1875 (percent collected second chance) / 0.75 (percent collected) first time)

To second chance a 1.025 with 75% efficiency you need to use the grain from a mash which produced a 1.1 with 75% efficiency.

I would just aim for a high efficiency the first time around, see my thread here for my very simple process.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/i-just-got-94-efficiency-118689/

**Reno_eNVy** · 06-17-2009, 02:21 AM

I've read that thread; seems to me it's just adding another 2 hours to my brew day resulting in a lower-quality wort that costs ~$3 less.

Acumen · 06-17-2009, 05:42 AM

I really don't think it has affected my wort quality, as was said in the thread it is basically like a HERMS or RIMS system. Total mash/vorlauf/sparge time is still only around 90 minutes. It adds like 15-30 minutes. On bigger beers it saves more in the nature of 5$ per batch, thats coming from 80%, which adds up.

If anything I think it has improved the quality of my wort. It filters out all the protiens and what not. The color of the wort I get is undescribable, when I say it looks like a gemstone that is because there is no word for perfect wort.

Freezeblade · 06-17-2009, 06:36 AM

what you are referring to is also known as a partigyle, and is about as old as brewing itself.

Parti-gyle - Home Brewing Wiki

With Batch Sparging, normally I formulate a recipe with a lower eff than I normally get (I usually get 78% so I formulate for 60%), and do a thiner mash, around 2.0 (alternatively, you could do a step mash which would end you up at a pretty thin ending mash) Drain that out, this will become the strong beer, usually either an ESB, Barleywine, Imperial Stout, Dark Strong, etc. I then add in more water for sparging, this second (or even third) sparge becomes the weaker beer (ordinary bitter, mild, blonde, etc.) I usually add some sugar to supplement this smaller beer to up the OG just a little bit.

When you're fly sparging, just figure a lower efficiency, double your sparge water, and the general rule is that 2/3 of your sugars are rinsed out within the first half of sparge water.

partigyle is fun.

**Reno_eNVy** · 06-17-2009, 05:58 PM

Oh, awesome Freezeblade! Thanks a lot!

I'd heard the term second-chance but I was sure wasn't the real name of the process. Parti-gyle sounds a lot better

Alright, this now seems a LOT more feasible, considering I can scale down to 5 or 10gal batches as opposed to the 15gal batches the author of the article performs

**conpewter** · 06-17-2009, 06:13 PM

I normally parti-gyle on any brew above 1.100 since there will be sugars left over. I'm still dialing in my system for these sorts of brews though. Last brew I got a 1.104 RIS and a 1.040 stout.