Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Scorched Decoction
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-11-2014, 03:55 PM   #1
roger_tucker
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
roger_tucker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lindenhurst, IL
Posts: 106
Liked 22 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default Scorched Decoction

I did my first decoction mash yesterday. It never goes right the first time does it? First of all I got a little scorching. I stirred constantly but I got a little burning regardless. Maybe I applied a little too much heat. The biggest spot was about 2-3 inches in diameter. I had 2 or 3 other spots that were maybe the size of a quarter. I'm wondering if and how this might affect my beer. I tasted the wort when it went into the fermentor. I didn't detect any sort of burnt flavors.

Also when I put the decocted mash back into my mash tun the temp only came up to about 145 degrees. I ended up scooping the mash back into my pot and heating it to 154 and just holding it there. Anyone see any problem with doing that?

__________________
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Frank Zappa

Roger Tucker
roger_tucker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2014, 04:01 PM   #2
cheezydemon3
Registered User
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: louisville
Posts: 12,967
Liked 1641 Times on 1234 Posts
Likes Given: 3007

Default

I used to simulate a decoction (sorta) by skillet searing some of the wet mash.

It depends on the type of beer, but it always added the "complexity" often described by decoctors .

What was the grain bill?

__________________
cheezydemon3 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2014, 04:12 PM   #3
roger_tucker
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
roger_tucker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lindenhurst, IL
Posts: 106
Liked 22 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

It's a Mailbock

5.5 gallon batch
90 minute boil
70% efficiency

1.076 OG
24.3 IBU's
8.3 SRM
7.4% ABV

10.5 lbs Pilsner (2 Row)
5.5 lbs Munich Malt
Bavarian Lager Yeast (Wyeast #2206) 2 Liter starter
.5 oz Magnum Hops - Boil 60 min

__________________
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Frank Zappa

Roger Tucker
roger_tucker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2014, 04:30 PM   #4
IslandLizard
Progressive Brewing
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
IslandLizard's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Pasadena, MD
Posts: 2,842
Liked 330 Times on 297 Posts
Likes Given: 1037

Default

For decoction mashing I now use 2 kettles, one for the main mash the other for the decoctions. Easier to keep or bring the main one back to where it should be.

As you noticed it is very difficult to gauge how much 30% of the thick portion of the mash is. That may have partly to do with not reaching the target rest temp once re-combined. Plus the main mash cooling down more than you want while you're too busy cooking and stirring.

A little "scorching" shouldn't hurt your beer. That's where Maillard reactions get their edge. Now burning a thick layer stuck to the bottom, like porridge tends to do when unattended, would not be good.

__________________
Preparing: Framboise Clone | Raging Bitch Clone #3 | Tank 7 Saison Clone | Fresh Squeezed IPA | Venturing into some Sours, finally...
Fermenting:
Dry hopping:
Barrel Aging: Old Treacle Mine ==> Flanders
On tap: 2.3'd | ESB | Belgian Wit {1st place @ FSH Guild Wheat Beer Comp.} | Pocahontas Pumpkin Ale
Kicked: Sketchy Bastard | Black Butte Porter Clone | Raging Bitch Clone #2 | Citra Wheat Saison | Rosemary Wheat Saison | Great Lakes Christmas Ale Clone | Caramel Amber Ale
IslandLizard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2014, 04:31 PM   #5
cheezydemon3
Registered User
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: louisville
Posts: 12,967
Liked 1641 Times on 1234 Posts
Likes Given: 3007

Default

As long as it wasn't BLACK burnt, you should be fine. In fact, it might be fantastically impossible to re-create

I think you will be fine. Unfortunately, if it is burnt, it NEVER goes away.

__________________
cheezydemon3 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2014, 04:44 PM   #6
Roundhouse
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 114
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

What type of decoction did you do? Single, double? What temperatures were you going to/from?

When I do a double decoction, I dough in with a water/grist ratio of about 1.75 qts/ 1 lb of grain. I generally adjust my strike water so it doughs in at a target of 131-133. After sitting for 15-20 minutes, I'll pull 1 qt of thick decoction per pound of grain used, draining most of the liquid off. I bring this to a boil in a separate kettle. After the boil time is over, I slowly add it back a scoop at a time or so until the next target rest temp is hit. It needs to be stirred well. There is always some decoction left over in the kettle. I let it sit in there while it slowly cools and the main mash rests. After the rest period, the remaining decoction portion left over in the kettle is usually cooled enough to be added back to the main mash. It is stirred in well and then the second decoction is pulled. This one is only taking the mash from about 144 to 158 so I only pull 1/2 qt per pound of grain which is half the amount of the first pull. Most of this will get added back to the main mash after boiling. My main mash is in a cooler so it doesn't lose much heat. The final rise to mashout is done by draining the liquid off of the mash and bringing it to a boil. It is then mixed back in. I haven't had any scorching issues but I don't keep the flame too intense. I do stir the entire time which is a bit tedious.

For a single decoction, I'll do a normal infusion mash. Let's just say at 150° for example. This will be doughed in at a ratio of 1.25 qts water/ 1 lb of grain or so which is noticeably thicker than the double. After 45 minutes into the rest I'll pull just slightly over a third of the mash and bring it to a boil. It will be added back to hit mashout temperature.

I'm not sure how you do it but that is my method and it has worked great for me. I've never had any issues hitting my temps and I've never scorched anything. What you described will probably be just fine so don't sweat it. If it tastes good, drink it!

__________________
Roundhouse is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2014, 04:45 PM   #7
roger_tucker
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
roger_tucker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lindenhurst, IL
Posts: 106
Liked 22 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

The scorched area was black, but it was not thick. The smaller spots scrubbed right off with almost no effort. The spot that was a few inches in diameter took a little bit more scrubbing but it wasn't like I had to take a putty knife to it.

__________________
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Frank Zappa

Roger Tucker
roger_tucker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2014, 04:59 PM   #8
roger_tucker
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
roger_tucker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lindenhurst, IL
Posts: 106
Liked 22 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundhouse View Post
What type of decoction did you do? Single, double? What temperatures were you going to/from?
I did a single decoction. I mashed in for a protein rest shooting for 122 degrees for 25 minutes. I actually hit 125 degrees. I pulled 14 quarts of dry mash for the decoction, so slightly less than 1 quart per pound. I brought that to a boil for 5 minutes and then added the decoction back to the mash tun. I was shooting for a 154 degree sacchrification rest for 45 minutes. I only hit about 145 when I added the decoction back to the mash tun. So I scooped my mash into my pot and brought it up to 154 and just kept adjusting the heat to keep it there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundhouse View Post
This will be doughed in at a ratio of 1.25 qts water/ 1 lb of grain or so which is noticeably thicker than the double.
The folks at the LHBS actually told me I probably want to go with a little thicker mash. So that if I didn't hit my temps when I added the decoction back to the tun I could add some boiling water. I regretfully chose to ignore that advice.
__________________
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Frank Zappa

Roger Tucker
roger_tucker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2014, 05:42 PM   #9
Roundhouse
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 114
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

It can be a learning curve. Try it again. You'll get it.

__________________
Roundhouse is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2014, 05:48 PM   #10
IslandLizard
Progressive Brewing
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
IslandLizard's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Pasadena, MD
Posts: 2,842
Liked 330 Times on 297 Posts
Likes Given: 1037

Default

5 minutes boil only? You're not going to get a lot of melanoidens from that. 20-40 minutes are more common, at least for double and triple decoctions. If you have a triple ply bottomed kettle scorching should be minimal, as long as you scrape and turn the bottom mash up. And yes, when re-combining small additions and good stirring is the right way. The schedule should tell you to raise from 122 => 147 over say 15 minutes.

The mash should be fairly loose so most of the enzymes remain behind in the liquid phase. 1.50-1.75 is common I think. And the steps in the decoction portion include usually heating periods to one or more rest temps, (e.g., 122 => 133 or 133 => 147) and hold each there for x minutes, so that thick mash can actually convert properly before being boiled.

__________________
Preparing: Framboise Clone | Raging Bitch Clone #3 | Tank 7 Saison Clone | Fresh Squeezed IPA | Venturing into some Sours, finally...
Fermenting:
Dry hopping:
Barrel Aging: Old Treacle Mine ==> Flanders
On tap: 2.3'd | ESB | Belgian Wit {1st place @ FSH Guild Wheat Beer Comp.} | Pocahontas Pumpkin Ale
Kicked: Sketchy Bastard | Black Butte Porter Clone | Raging Bitch Clone #2 | Citra Wheat Saison | Rosemary Wheat Saison | Great Lakes Christmas Ale Clone | Caramel Amber Ale
IslandLizard is offline
VladOfTrub Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Messed up my decoction? Forgot sacc. rest before boiling decoction... Falcon3 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 5 03-04-2014 12:04 AM
scorched murrayhulderman Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 09-08-2012 10:24 PM
Scorched? Undrtkr_00 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 4 08-27-2011 12:53 PM
Scorched? Undrtkr_00 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 0 08-25-2011 03:48 PM
Scorched Pot shibbypwn Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 4 06-06-2011 10:16 PM