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Old 04-29-2009, 07:49 PM   #1
Spludge
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Default Quick yeast question

Brewing Jamil's Amber recipe tonight and had a quick yeast question. The recipe calls for White Labs WLP001 California Ale but I didn't have time to make a starter so I substituted Salafe-04 . This is relatively the same right?
Recipe is below
Thanks

A great Am. Amber recipe. I don't think this ever placed lower than first in any competition. If you don't have pale chocolate, use half the amount of regular chocolate malt.

Amber-Red Ale

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

06-B American Pale Ales, American Amber Ale

Min OG: 1.045 Max OG: 1.056
Min IBU: 20 Max IBU: 40
Min Clr: 11 Max Clr: 18 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 6.00 Wort Size (Gal): 6.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 12.75
Anticipated OG: 1.055 Plato: 13.53
Anticipated SRM: 16.6
Anticipated IBU: 36.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 7.74 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.042 SG 10.59 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
74.5 9.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038 3
3.9 0.50 lbs. Victory Malt America 1.034 25
7.8 1.00 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40
7.8 1.00 lbs. Munich Malt(light) America 1.033 10
3.9 0.50 lbs. Crystal 120L America 1.033 120
2.0 0.25 lbs. Chocolate Malt - Light Great Britain 1.034 200

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.50 oz. Magnum Pellet 15.00 30.1 60 min.
0.50 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.40 2.2 10 min.
0.50 oz. Centennial Pellet 9.40 3.8 10 min.
0.50 oz. Cascade Pellet 5.40 0.0 0 min.
0.50 oz. Centennial Pellet 9.40 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP001 California Ale


Water Profile
-------------

Profile:
Profile known for:

Calcium(Ca): 0.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 0.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 0.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 0.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 0.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 0.0 ppm

pH: 0.00


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 12.75
Water Qts: 19.17 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 4.79 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.50 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 156 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 60


Total Mash Volume Gal: 5.81 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.

Judges don't see the recipe and the result is a very nice, very subtle biscuit note, that adds a bit of complexity and rounds it out. I think it is spectacular. It placed first at several good size competitions (> 300 entries): World Cup, Mayfaire (twice), and California State Fair.

The trick on the chocolate is to be VERY subtle. One thing about some chocolate malts is that, used with restraint, they have a very nice toasty note, not a roasty note. You want to get the toasty, not the roasty for this beer. Also, it will really highten the red look.

I do think you'll get some of the character by choosing the lightest chocolate you can find and dropping the amount by half. This is what I would do before I found the pale chocolate and it worked fairly well.

Of course, the pale chocolate (200L) would be best. It is made by Bestons, and I hear they now only sell it to breweries 224,733

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Old 04-29-2009, 07:53 PM   #2
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US-05 is the same strain, but S-04 will work just fine.

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Old 04-29-2009, 07:56 PM   #3
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S-04 is a British yeast and more estery than 001. Don't worry, you'll still make beer!

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Old 04-29-2009, 08:12 PM   #4
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And it'll be good!

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Old 04-29-2009, 09:12 PM   #5
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Thanks guys, I sure hope it's good, got expensive with some of the grains and three different hops.
I wanted to go with the Salafe 05 but my LHBS was out so settled for 04.

I also have a packet of Coopers Dry Brewer's Yeast, would this be a better choice than the 04?

Am I fretting about nothing?

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Bottle Conditioning/Drinking
Jamil's ESB, Honey Raspberry,EdWort's Bavarian Hefe, Oatmeal Stout, Jamil's Amber Ale, BierMuncher's Belgian Wit, Red Ale, Kitchen Sink, Yeasty Beasty Hefe, American Pale, Zone Zero Black, Maibock

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Old 04-29-2009, 09:17 PM   #6
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mmmmm... Schmaybe. Naw... I'd use the 04 over the Coopers any day.

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Old 04-29-2009, 10:04 PM   #7
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US-05 is a very 'clean' fermenting yeast, ie you don't get a lot of esters, even when fermenting at a temp as high as 25*C (77F). I expect by using the S-04 you'll get more esters including banana and bubblegum, to a greater or lesser extent depening on your fermentation temp. If you ferment at 16*C (61F) I don't think you'll get a lot of esters at all, but if you ferment at 23*C+ (73F+) they will probably be quite pronounced. The BJCP guidelines for American Amber say "Esters vary from moderate to none." So if you keep your fermentation temp low you'll be OK.

Most esters are produced in the first few days of fermentation, so it's more important to keep control of the fermentation temp in the first few days.

Also regarding yeast, no Diacetyl is acceptable in an AAA, so don't rack the beer out of the primary until fermentation has finished. Not that you'll have to worry about being impatient with the 04, it's notoriously fast, I've had it finish fermentation for a regular size beer in under 3 days at 19*C.

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Old 04-29-2009, 10:26 PM   #8
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The 04 doesn't flocc as well (quickly) as the 05 but it is a great yeast IMO for flavor if you do as the above poster suggests.

Both will throw off solventy flavors if you range too high. Resolving that issue was the single most critical point in my brewing development.

Edit: You know, the Coopers might be more appropriate if the OP was having temp issues. IIRC it tops out at 80F. It's flavor profile is supposedly neutral so maybe it is a good substitute for US-05.

The only time I've ever used it was with a kit and then a following cake pitch with old extract fermented in the high 60's. It was estery but the cideryness due to the oxidized extract was predominant in both batches so I can't be a good judge of that yeast.

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Old 04-29-2009, 10:44 PM   #9
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I'd def use the 04. I used it in a nut brown of mine and it turned out great. You'll be fine.

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Old 04-29-2009, 10:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radtek View Post
Both will throw off solventy flavors if you range too high. Resolving that issue was the single most critical point in my brewing development.
A little OT/mini rant. Correct fermentation temperature for the strain of yeast you are using is the second most important thing in brewing after sanitation. It is far more important for making good beer than fancy equipment or elaborate grain bills. If you can't control high fermentation temperatures spend your time getting good at brewing Saison, it is supposed to be fermented warm.
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