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Old 05-20-2012, 03:13 PM   #1
SmokingDog
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Default Quick question: higher and prolonged mash

Would a high mash temp and accidently prolonged mash time produce a high FG?



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Old 05-20-2012, 03:24 PM   #2
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high temp - yes at around 70-76C you will get a lot of dextrins and less fermentable sugars. This is how low alcohol beers are mashed. B amylase is active which will produce unfermenatable dextrins mostly.
Long time will help produce more fermentable extract but important to mash at lower temps eg 64C and 72C stands for max fermentable extract



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Old 05-20-2012, 03:28 PM   #3
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What temperature did you mash at?? Longer mash times shouldn't result in any change of the FG. I typically mash for 60 minutes or longer. I've done 90 minutes mashes too.

BTW, for those of us that don't think in C, post temps in F... I don't think in metric since I'm old enough that 'standard' or SAE is my standard.

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Old 05-20-2012, 03:32 PM   #4
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Sorry, I'm from South Africa where we went metric in 1971. deg F is foreign to me and 0to 100 makes more sense

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Old 05-20-2012, 03:34 PM   #5
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Mashed at 159-60 for about 125 mins.

My FG isnt dropping below 1.031. OG was 1.073

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Old 05-20-2012, 03:41 PM   #6
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Thats too high (71C) - precisely the temp to make a low alc beer, which is why your FG is so high. You need to go to 150F (65C)

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Old 05-20-2012, 03:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokingDog View Post
Mashed at 159-60 for about 125 mins.

My FG isnt dropping below 1.031. OG was 1.073
That high of a mash temp is what did it... That's above the full body mash temp range (caps about 158F)... Not surprised the FG is stopping at 1.031...

BTW, is that reading from a hydrometer or refractometer?? If refractometer, is it adjusted (spreadsheet)??

Not to get into a debate about F vs. C, but C [IMO] is far less precise. If I have a thermometer that reads 152.1 it makes complete sense to me. I wouldn't even know where that would fall in the C range. I'm not about to use a converter app to turn it into something I can use.

In the US, we didn't start looking at the metric system (where I went to school) for the mainstay. Everything was still in standard/SAE terms through high school (graduated in 1988) with some things also listed in metric, but that was secondary.

It's all well and good that you can use C, but since this is an US based web site, please have the courtesy to also post in F. /off topic I see that you did this already, thanks...

BTW, depending on what I'm after, I'll mash in the 150-156F range (mostly in the 150-152F range)... Last night's batch was mashed at 152 for an hour. It was my mocha porter, that I'm hoping will go to about 9%...
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:53 PM   #8
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High Temp - kinda what I thought. English nut honey brown. Now a fairly "SWEET" version.

OPINIONS:
Should I bother spending the time to bottle, or just dump it in a keg and drink it. I think I will dry hop a little to balance some of the sweetness though. (I think I jsut answered my own question! HA.)

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Old 05-20-2012, 08:59 PM   #9
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Actually should not be sweet - sweet sugars are fermentable- dextrins are much less sweet - full bodied yes but residual sweetness indicates incomplete attenuation

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Old 05-20-2012, 09:10 PM   #10
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It seems to me that mashing at a high temperature for a long time should eventually make a very fermentable wort. Eventually the enzymes should break down all the starches and dextrins to simple (and very fermentable) sugars. It just might take a long time.

I'll just throw my thought process down in case I'm really wrong.

Our grains are made up of many long chain starches. We can think of a starch as a necklace of sugar units linked together. If we say that one sugar unit is an S then we can say that a typical starch looks like SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

The enzymes at low temperatures go along and cleave off a sugar from the end of the starch. The enzymes at higher temperatures randomly cleave the starch at any point along the chain.

Mashing at low temperatures SSSSS => S + SSSS => S + S + SSS => S + S + S + SS => S + S + S + S + S

We can see that mashing at a low temperature will only give us simple sugars if we mash to completion.

Mashing at high temperatures SSSSS => SS + SSS => S + SS + SS => S + S + S + SS => S + S + S + S + S

Mashing at a high temperature will quickly convert long starch molecules to dextrins. Eventually these dextrins should be converted to simple sugars.

Mashing at an intermediate temperature will give the fastest conversion to simple sugars. At these temperatures the long starch molecules are quickly cleaved randomly along the chain by the enzymes most active at high temperatures. This creates a lot of "chain ends" which are quickly attacked by the enzymes that work at low temperatures.

I don't have a ton of experience with mashing at different temperatures but it seems from the scientific side of things, you can get to a very fermentable wort anywhere between 140-160F however it might take significantly longer than any of us would expect if you are outside of the 149-155F sweet spot most of us work in.



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