Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Please rate my process - 65% Eff on ESB

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-16-2009, 03:55 PM   #1
goofiefoot
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 84
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Please rate my process - 65% Eff on ESB

This is my second all-grain, and while my efficiency was better this time than my first, I'm sure I could do better. Please review:

Recipe:
US 2-Row 10.00 lb 88.9 %
US Caramel 60L 0.75 lb 6.7 %
US Caramel 120L 0.25 lb 2.2 %
Belgian Biscuit 0.25 lb 2.2 %
UK Golding 5.5 % 1.50 oz 26.5 (First Wort Hopped)
UK Fuggle 4.5 % 0.50 oz 4.4 (20 Min From End)
UK Golding 5.5 % 0.25 oz 2.7 (20 Min From End)
Irish Moss 0.25 oz (15 Min From End)
UK Fuggle 4.5 % 0.50 oz 0.0 (At turn off)
UK Golding 5.5 % 0.25 oz 0.0 (At turn off)
DCL S-04-SafAle (1 pkg)

I have a 50-quart Ice Cube cooler with a cPVC manifold. I boil in a 15-gal stainless pot over a propane burner.

I planned to mash 1 hour at 154°. I added 4.28 gallons of 167° water directly to the mash tun then stirred in the grain making sure we had good coverage. I realized after I put the grain in that I forgot the 5.2, so I added it and mixed again. I checked temperature and it held at 153.5, so I shut the lid.

I stirred at 15 minutes, and I found I lost 3°. At 30 minutes, I was still sitting just below 150°, so I added about 2 quarts of boiling water and stirred. This only brought the temp to 151.5°. At 45 minutes I stirred again and the temp was 151°.

After 60 minutes, I added 1.5 gallons of 190° water and stirred. This only brought the temp up to 160°. I went ahead and let it sit for about 5 mins, then vorlaufed until the runnings were clear and let it slowly drain into the pot (about 7 minutes to drain).

I then added 3.25 gallons of 170° water for the final sparge. I stirred well, vorlaufed, and begun draining as slow as the ball valve would allow. I planned for this to drain over an hour, but it was empty at 30 minutes. It also gave me 7.5 gallons of wort, instead of the 6.5 gallons I had planned.

I took the pre-boil gravity and it came out to 1.036 (the expected for 75% eff was 1.048). BeerAlchemy calculated this as 65.7% eff.

I boiled for 80 minutes total to get down to our 5.5 gallon target. I cooled, drained to fermentor, and took the SG - 1.056 (exactly our target). I pitched a pack of hydrated yeast, and had airlock activity within 2 hours.

My first all-grain attempt showed 52% efficiency, but the beer tasted ok. I definitely improved with this one, but again, I think I can do better.

Please take a look and let me know what improvements might bring up my efficiency. Thanks in advance!

Jason

__________________
goofiefoot is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2009, 03:58 PM   #2
AZ_IPA
PKU
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
AZ_IPA's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Cold Part of AZ
Posts: 42,276
Liked 6075 Times on 5309 Posts
Likes Given: 715

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofiefoot View Post

I then added 3.25 gallons of 170° water for the final sparge. I stirred well, vorlaufed, and begun draining as slow as the ball valve would allow. I planned for this to drain over an hour, but it was empty at 30 minutes. It also gave me 7.5 gallons of wort, instead of the 6.5 gallons I had planned.
with batch sparging; there's no need to drain slow - in fact, draining faster is better. you add your batch water; stir to get the sugars into solution, and drain as fast as you can.
__________________
AZ_IPA is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2009, 04:00 PM   #3
elmetal
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pembroke Pines, FL
Posts: 1,040
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

that makes a lot more sense to me now. I drained real slow on my batch last week and got 65% also...

then again it was a 1085 expected og.

__________________
Bottled: Imperial Stout[/SIZE]
elmetal is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2009, 04:07 PM   #4
phatuna
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 793
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Hi Jason, have you tried putting a sleeping bag or big blanket around your cooler during the mash? This will help hold your temps a little better.
Also, your target temp for sparging is typically 168* or so. If your grains are sitting at about 160* for your mashout, you will need to sparge with water warmer than 170*.

I ususally add sparge water at about 185* or so in order to get the temp of the grains to 168*.

you can use a mash calculator like this one: http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php to dial in your water additions.

__________________
phatuna is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2009, 04:09 PM   #5
AZ_IPA
PKU
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
AZ_IPA's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Cold Part of AZ
Posts: 42,276
Liked 6075 Times on 5309 Posts
Likes Given: 715

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofiefoot View Post

I planned to mash 1 hour at 154°. I added 4.28 gallons of 167° water directly to the mash tun then stirred in the grain making sure we had good coverage.
Try this - add your strike water at about 175*F. Stir for a couple minutes and close the lid and let it sit for about 5-10 minutes.

Check you temp (should be about 166*F). You can now dough-in to a pre-heated MLT. Stir for a couple minutes and close the lid. Check it about 5-10 minutes later and it should be ~154*F

(of course this varies slightly with ambient air temp, original cooler temp, and grain temp - but you get the idea).
__________________
AZ_IPA is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2009, 04:20 PM   #6
kkocher13
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 140
Default

Jason,
Also with the Igloo Cubes there isn't any insulation in the lid. I'd drill a couple of holes and put some spray insulation in there. I did this and only lost 1 degree over an hour.

__________________
kkocher13 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2009, 04:21 PM   #7
goofiefoot
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 84
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

I use BeerAlchemy for all my strike and mash temps and volumes. I realize I may need to tweak these for my set up. My first all grain was a larger volume and I held temp for the entire hour, but I didn't stir near as much (which I figured was why my efficiency was so low).

As you can read in my first post, for my mash out I added 190° water and it only brought me up to 160°. I assume since this was the case, I needed to add warmer water for both my mash out and 2nd sparge?

So, AZ_IPA - would my slow 2nd sparge contribute to low efficiency? Should both my mash-out sparge and 2nd sparge be wide-open drains then? That being the case, how long should I allow my sparge water addition to rest before I drain?

__________________
goofiefoot is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2009, 04:39 PM   #8
AZ_IPA
PKU
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
AZ_IPA's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Cold Part of AZ
Posts: 42,276
Liked 6075 Times on 5309 Posts
Likes Given: 715

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofiefoot View Post

So, AZ_IPA - would my slow 2nd sparge contribute to low efficiency? Should both my mash-out sparge and 2nd sparge be wide-open drains then? That being the case, how long should I allow my sparge water addition to rest before I drain?
not neccessarily - but it could. Did you take a gravity and reading of your first runnings? If so, you can see how much your conversion efficiency was.

Also, most batch spargers subscribe to the drain-as-quick-as-possible camp. And many are only doing a single batch sparge (planning for the full volume needed to get to their desired pre-boil volume). I think denny (from this site) has calculated that he was only getting an extra ~2% by doing a double batch.

I, and many others (that I've learned from), will add the sparge water, mix well for a couple minutes, vorlauf and drain wide open.
__________________
AZ_IPA is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2009, 04:53 PM   #9
phatuna
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 793
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofiefoot View Post
As you can read in my first post, for my mash out I added 190° water and it only brought me up to 160°. I assume since this was the case, I needed to add warmer water for both my mash out and 2nd sparge?
Well, if I'm doing a mashout, I typically add a small amount of boiling water which will get me to 160ish. Sounds like your mashout went as planned.

But then as you drain the 1st runnings, you will lose a few degrees so you may be at only 158* or so when you add your sparge water. To get from 158 to 168*, you will need to add water warmer than 170*.

I do a double batch sparge, so the first addition of sparge water is typically around 185*. I mix it for about 5 minutes, then drain.

Then, add my second addition of sparge water at around 175* or so, stir like hell and drain.
__________________
phatuna is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2009, 04:54 PM   #10
dwarven_stout
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,629
Liked 34 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_IPA View Post
I, and many others (that I've learned from), will add the sparge water, mix well for a couple minutes, vorlauf and drain wide open.
Yup. I generally get 78% with a single batch sparge. I drain the first runnings at 1/3 or 1/2 open, then full bore for sparge.

Temperature control has already been touched on, so...
What's your crush like? Where are you getting your grain from? A lot of LHBS have poor crush, so if you're getting grain locally you might have them crush it twice. Brewmaster's Warehouse and Austin Homebrew Supply are two online stores that are well-know around these parts for a good crush and high resultant efficiencies.
__________________
dwarven_stout is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rate my IPA erock2112 Recipes/Ingredients 17 11-11-2009 06:28 PM
Evaporation rate? hopmadness All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 10 03-25-2009 12:22 AM
Rate these 3 hops terrazza Recipes/Ingredients 1 10-20-2008 05:20 PM
Recirculation rate Dragheim General Techniques 7 10-02-2008 04:06 PM