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-   -   Partial Mash Caramel Porter!!!!!! (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/partial-mash-caramel-porter-209853/)

IrlandeseBrewing 12-04-2010 11:33 PM

Partial Mash Caramel Porter!!!!!!
Ok so I need help, I really enjoy Saranac Caramel Porter and so do a few friends. Being the brewmaster of the group I have been told to recreate this Saranac beauty. My deal is how am I supposed to get the caramel flavor? I figure try to be a bit cheap as it might be an experiment batch and I picked up a brewers best Robust Porter kit. My dilemma is when I add caramel, how I add it, and how much do I add? I figure if it is in the wort once fermentation starts the yeasties will eat it all up and the beer will lose the caramel flavor. I can't add it after fermentation since how will it melt and mix into the brew? Plus worry about sanitation and such. Ive read up people say adding to the wort is still ok and the flavor of caramel is there but I want to try to have more of a pronounced flavor like saranac gets. Thoughts by anyone? I'm gonna brew tomorrow (12/5/10) as my other batch of Imperial IPA is moving to the secondary. That brew is turning out to be awesome! Took a little sip after testing the gravity and WOW is it hoppy. I think I'll discuss that brew a little more once it is kegged. Any help with the Caramel Porter though would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!! Thanks! :mug:

dcp27 12-05-2010 01:25 AM

I'd just use a hearty amount of C120 to get that caramel flavor, it sounds like thats what Saranac does

IrlandeseBrewing 12-05-2010 03:43 PM

I think I may try that and add about a pound of caramel to the last 10 mins of the boil. I guess we will see if there is any taste left after fermentation. I'm not looking for an overpoweringly caramel tasting brew, just enough to know it is there. We will see how it ends up. I'll try to keep posted on how it turns out.

AnthonyD 12-06-2010 12:51 AM

Saranac caramel porter is such a great beer. I've been wondering how they get such a pronounced caramel aroma and flavor.

I'm interested to see how this turns out.

Dick562 12-06-2010 12:56 AM

Tag on this. I just made a recipe to try and get a good caramel taste in a porter as well havent brewed it so i might wait and see what happens to yours.

This post got me reading and im wondering if you mash some crystal malt at a high temp making longer chains of sugar would that help with the retention of caramel flavors after fermentation?

IrlandeseBrewing 12-06-2010 06:20 PM

So I brewed it last night and things went well. Again I was testing this batch so went cheap. Here is what I did...

I bought the brewers best robust porter kit for a 5lb pound batch. I stuck strictly to the directions they had with two exceptions. I don't have an all grain setup so I went with partial. I was contemplating on adding some crystal and I assume it may work to have it mash at a higher temp but maybe that could work on round two granted this doesnt come out well. This is what was in the 5lb batch...

6.6 lbs of Porter LME
4 oz. De-Bittered Black
4 oz. Caramel 120L
4 oz. Chocolate

Steeped grains at 155 for 20 mins.

Boil - I stuck to scheduled hop additions recommended but I did only two different things...

.5 oz Norther Brewer 60 min
1 oz. Willamette 30 min
1 tsp. Irish Moss 15 min
1 lb. Caramel 10 min (I tried to make some but I went with store bought candy grade caramel. I asked my mother who isn't a brewer but has used it before for other things thought that might be my best bet since it was weighed out and well tasted pretty good too.)
.5 oz Willamette 5 mins

Yeast was a dry packet of Nottingham. Pitched it at 70 and 16 hours later now I have alot of action going in the fermenter. I usually prefer liquid but again I was going for price control and didn't want to mess with yeast yet. This could be one way to enhance caramel flavor if I use another strain but hey I'm still in my apprentice days of brewing.

My OG came just about where it was supposed to be at 1.051. Batch had recommendation of 1.051 - 1.055.

I plan to let it ferment for a week in primary, secondary for 2-3 weeks (I may get trigger happy and keg it at 2), and then force carb it in a keg. If it turns out I may do it again and bottle that batch but this is the best part of homebrewing, all the experimenting! If I don't get a good caramel flavor I'll probably still end up with a solid Porter for these colder days ahead. I thought I may get more alcohol and a higher OG by adding the caramel but I guess I didn't get alot out of the grains when mashing. Regardless I'll keep you all posted on how it comes out.

IrlandeseBrewing 12-06-2010 06:22 PM

Note - I know I had 4 oz of Caramel 120L which maybe I could pick up more next batch and see if it enhances the flavor. And I did the Irish Moss at 15...I do it for every batch as my understanding it helps with clarity and driving stuff down but maybe its not needed in Porters in dark beers...and advice there would be appreciated.

dcp27 12-06-2010 09:01 PM

I've never used caramel, so I dont kno how much caramel flavor it contributes, but I'm thinking you'll want to step up the C120 next time. Have you ever had Southern Tier's Creme Brulee? IIRC, that uses upwards of 2lbs of C120.

Also, ditch the secondary, there's no need, especially if you plan to keg. Just give it 2-4 weeks in the primary.

just to clarify, this wasnt a partial mash, it was an extract + steeping grains. none of those grains have any enzymes so it doesnt qualify as a mash.

IrlandeseBrewing 12-06-2010 11:08 PM

Ah ok thanks still learning some of the terminology. I have not had the ST Creme Brulee but I will now look for it! I'll probably try it again with more C120 then and possible ditch the caramel candy altogether. Unless I get some hints of it then I could bump the C120 then maybe use just a .5 lb of caramel. I dunno its just going to be a long experiment. I'm actually not a big sweet beer fan but this is one of the few I do. Plus a buddy of mine swears I can't do it so hey even if I can't I'm gonna have a hell of a great time trying!

dcp27 12-06-2010 11:30 PM


Originally Posted by IrlandeseBrewing (Post 2456869)
I'm actually not a big sweet beer fan but this is one of the few I do.

hmm, may want to skip the creme brulee then. IMO, its too sweet to drink much of, but it does go real well with ice cream

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