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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Nottingham yeast - hydrate or not ?
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:02 PM   #71
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i asked everyone at my LHBS how they do it. 7 out of 9 just pitch it. no rehydration.

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Old 10-07-2012, 12:29 AM   #72
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At my LHBS, Erik Schmid recommends direct pitch without rehydration.

He even stated this heresy on Brad Smith's podcast:

http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/06/14...th-podcast-40/

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Old 10-07-2012, 12:33 AM   #73
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If its for carbonating bottles, I rehydrated them so the yeast is active and ready to go. Have used dry champagne yeast before for another beer and that worked fine.

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Old 10-07-2012, 01:38 AM   #74
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Its like the grain crush debate. If one university does one experiment in one laboratory it becomes 'real science'. If a thousand homebrewers get a different result we are all ignorant. How is one experiment better than 1000? We are the science! The 'science' is the theory. Counting cells under a microscope doesn't tell you anything about the health of those cells.
Dead yeast is yeast food. So maybe 50 billion fat healthy horny yeast is as good as 100 billion starving weak yeast. The only fact that I have seen here is that nothing is undisputed.

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Old 10-07-2012, 01:42 AM   #75
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has the homebrewer ever considered that all the hype may be in the advantage of all the homebrew vendors to sell stuff ?

as for me i do what i have seen thru experience helps regardless of weird science. the sumarians brewed beer in 5000 bc ......

GD51

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Old 10-07-2012, 02:47 AM   #76
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Hopefully you did not think I was snarky. I am brewing tommorow and will likely hydrate the yeast but only with cooled water and not follow the instructions to the T. I will also aerate with welding oxygen. And just because, I also add a smak pack of wyeast along with the dry yeast as I like the flavor of the mix.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:04 AM   #77
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I have a friend who has been brewing for, well, since before it was legal. The other day he was telling me the ingredients to the last beer he made, it was probably about 1.060. Anyway he direct pitched a pack of coopers he had in his fridge for 7+ years! Imagine the look of horror on my face whe he told me that! I gave him a speach about proper pitching rates and he totally facepalmed... His imortal quote was "then what the hell have I been making all of these years? It cant be beer, because the internet said it wouldnt work!" The beer did taste good, maybe a little more estery then I might have made, but very tastey. Anyway, rant over, and I didnt even reference nottingham (oops!).

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Old 10-07-2012, 11:33 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikethepoolguy View Post
If one university does one experiment in one laboratory it becomes 'real science'. If a thousand homebrewers get a different result we are all ignorant.
EXACTLY!

Experiments performed under controlled conditions by people who understand how to perform them and interpret the results have validity. 1000 people performing a bad practice doesn't validate that practice.

This is not about whether it will work or not...it's about BEST PRACTICE. And pitching dry yeast without re-hydrating has been proven under laboratory conditions to be less optimal than re-hydrating first. END OF STORY.

This is a very broad generalization, but it really comes down to there being 2 camps of homebrewers out there. The first group consists of those who just want to make drinkable beer, and don't really get caught up in all the nuances of making the best beer possible. These people don't care about re-hydrating b/c sprinkling it on the wort has always just "worked". The 2nd group include those who want to take every step under his/her power to make the best beer possible, and to optimize conditions every step of the way. These people care about the objective, proven science behind brewing and thus will follow all established best brewing practices...like re-hydrating dry yeast.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:20 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g-star View Post
EXACTLY!

Experiments performed under controlled conditions by people who understand how to perform them and interpret the results have validity.

And pitching dry yeast without re-hydrating has been proven under laboratory conditions to be less optimal than re-hydrating first. END OF STORY.
Controlled conditions that have no differences whatsoever are extremely difficult to attain especially when dealing with an organic, living product like yeast.

Did the scientists do a study on every dry yeast?
How old was the yeast?
What temperature was it stored at?
Did they rehydrate at every temperature in the yeast's range?

Then to determine if it was better than just pitching on wort:

What was the determining factor as to the better method? Cell count? Activity?...
Did they test each different type of yeast with wort at each different temperature, specific gravity, O2 level, hop level, amount and type of fermentables, adjuncts and every other variable there can between batches?

Yes they can make generalized conclusions and predictions but as far as it being scientific fact, unless they show that it is true in ALL cases under ALL conditions that are normal to us brewers that is all they are, generalized conclusions or predictions, which may be accurate for most but not all situations.

That's just how I see it. Everyone has their own thoughts on the subject and are perfectly entitled to them. That's what makes everyday a little different and worth living.

bosco
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:00 AM   #80
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Sorry bosco, its really not that complicated. High density wort increases the osmotic pressure on the yeast cell membrane relative to pure water. Increased osmotic pressure leads to yeast stress and increased levels of cell death, again relative to hydration in a 1.000 gm/cm3 solution. Here's just one of many peer-reviewed papers on the subject.

At its core, this is a simple principle, along the lines of something elementary - like helium is less dense than air. It is not up for debate. If you choose to ignore it or somehow otherwise mistakenly believe it is subjective, that is your prerogative. But it doesn't change the facts.

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