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Old 02-24-2009, 06:35 PM   #21
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I'm not really at all knowledgeable about the BIAB technique (though I'm thinking of trying it soon), but my understanding was that some people were concerned that the thin mash would denature the B-amylase too quickly and lead to a more dextrinous wort. (though from what I've heard, the empirical evidence contradicts this)


Those brewers are basing their concern on misinterpreted or outdated information found in home brewing textbooks. Fact is that b-amylase is denatured more quickly in thin mashes. But it is also fact that conversion happens quicker in thin mashes and as a result b-amylase isn’t needed for that long anyway. Both effects seem to compensate each other and as a result mash thickness has little effect on fermentablility. This is my experience and also what is written in most brewing texts.

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Old 02-24-2009, 06:45 PM   #22
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Those brewers are basing their concern on misinterpreted or outdated information found in home brewing textbooks. Fact is that b-amylase is denatured more quickly in thin mashes. But it is also fact that conversion happens quicker in thin mashes and as a result b-amylase isn’t needed for that long anyway. Both effects seem to compensate each other and as a result mash thickness has little effect on fermentablility. This is my experience and also what is written in most brewing texts.

Kai
ahh, thanks for the info!

so does that mean that one has to be more precise with hitting mash temps right away with a big thin mash?
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:23 PM   #23
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so does that mean that one has to be more precise with hitting mash temps right away with a big thin mash?
Good point. Based on my understanding I'd say so. But I don't know how much less time one has with a thin mash compared to a thick one.

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Old 02-25-2009, 06:38 AM   #24
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And also what I've been saying since late last year that the Aussie homebrewers are ahead of us in a lot of ways thanks to prohibition in the states kinda slowing stuff down..
I am on the opinion you are right there Revvy, not because I'm Australian, but because in my time trolling american and british blogs like this, we seem to be ahead of you guys. I believe our size (smaller population) helps -- our brew clubs are smaller and more contracted therefore we get the chance to see innovations quicker. Combine that with recognised Australian attitudes and willingness to experiment (as per the Palmer article in BYO) and you can see we are probably at the cutting edge of home brewing at the moment.

That said, American craft beer is miles ahead of our local scene, which is growing up but looks to the USA for guidance. Like the Amemricans, Australian brewers aren't stuck with the European models - we can adjust to suit available products to make great beers, not necessarily great beer styles that the Europeans remain with.


BIAB is probably not an Australian invention (the world has been brewing for 10,000 years so I reckon someone has thought of it) - its just it has been pioneered, championed and refined down under. It still has its critics and sceptics but as Danek in the UK and many in the US know, its not a bad way to brew. Personally I don't BIAB but that's my decision based on the gear I have. When assembling my AG stuff I scrounged, begged and borrowed like most everyone to get my lauter, kettle and tun. If I had all the money and the equipment was close at hand, I may have gone the BIAB route. But I haven't so I don't.

Hope you enjoyed the Aussie flavour of the last BYO - did everyone understand the "cubing" parts ?
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Old 02-25-2009, 12:01 PM   #25
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What about the cooling of the wort in the sealed container? I read the article, neat read... definately something worth trying for some who are beginning all-grain I think. But, what about how they cool the wort overnight in a sealed container?

Any potential problems with this?

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Old 02-25-2009, 01:51 PM   #26
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Any potential problems with this?
I gues this is calling for a side-by side experiment.

I like the idea of questioning existing hombe brew knowledge. I have done the no-chill once with a lager and even after a night out in the cold it didn't get below 55F. So I had to pitch warm. I didn't really like that beer but I'm not sure if it was the warm pitching or the slow chilling.

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Old 02-25-2009, 09:29 PM   #27
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I think I heard on the BN that it is not a good idea for seal hot liquid. I can't remember which show (from 2007), but the guest was saying nasties can form that will actually harm you. If the Aussies do this all the time, maybe this guy was wrong but I do remember the concern was brought up.

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Old 02-26-2009, 08:56 AM   #28
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I think I heard on the BN that it is not a good idea for seal hot liquid. I can't remember which show (from 2007), but the guest was saying nasties can form that will actually harm you. If the Aussies do this all the time, maybe this guy was wrong but I do remember the concern was brought up.
Never believe everything you read. The proof is in the pudding.

After boiling is complete, the contents are whirlpooled so most sediment / trub / hot break pools in middle of keg. The wort goes into the cube at near boil temperatures and the cube filled until absolutely no more can go into the cube. At that temperature the liquid is at higher than pasteurisation temperature, so the cube gets a second sanitation regime. What nasties are there to hurt you - certainly nothing from the cube (which of course is properly cleaned and sanitised prior to filling).

The comment that the cube contents are fermented next day is of course, not entirely correct. Many cubes are kept for months before fermenting, though realistically, most brewers will ferment it much sooner. If done properly, the cube is airtight and therefore there is little that can go wrong. Rather than place a fresh cube in the fridge, I'll let the cube cool overnight then put into my fridge for a day or two before fermentation, especially if using a lager yeast.

The reason most Aussies cube is that water is a bit scarce and many do not have u-beaut cooling systems that use gallons of tap water. We also can attend a brew day at a mates place / club day and bring home a cube to ferment at a later date.

Its so blindingly simple that it makes you wonder why it isn't more recognised.
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Old 02-26-2009, 01:41 PM   #29
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does it have to be a cube?

Joking aside. This is the first time I read about this. Before I thought that this no chill meant leaving the wort in the kettle and letting it cool there. The only concern I would have with prolonged storage in the cube is botulism. Boiling doesn't kill its spores (only pressure canning does) and it thrives in O2 free enviromnents. While the pH of beer is too low for it to grow it can gow in wort where the pH is higher.

Has that concern be discussed before?

Kai

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Old 02-26-2009, 02:04 PM   #30
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I am going to get myself a "cube" and try this on my next brew. I will only cool it overnight in the cube, aerate and pitch the following day.

I presume that any worries about DMS are alleviated in the boil? So sealing up hot wort wont be an issue there?

I am all about conserving water...

What about the lack of getting the cold break? What issues could that cause?

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