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Old 06-04-2012, 01:31 PM   #1
leolee86
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Default need sour beer advice

Going to brew my first sour this weekend, its a all grain consecration kit from more beer. I've brewed several all grain beers with great results. Just a little nervous about the sour brewing..anyone have any helpful advice or tips

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Old 06-04-2012, 02:53 PM   #2
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Have you looked at the sour section of HBT?

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Old 06-04-2012, 03:10 PM   #3
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what sort of technique does the kit tell you to use?

there are a couple different ways to go about souring a beer.

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Old 06-04-2012, 08:51 PM   #4
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It's says ferment to 1.018 with abby, 73degrees..then rise to 76 until 1.106 ..secondary, add the bret currants and the barrel oak..Bottle with wine yeast at 1.008

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Old 06-04-2012, 10:08 PM   #5
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Yeah, from what I was reading about the kit, I think all you'll have to do is toss the extras into a secondary and wait (the waiting will be the toughest!). The barrel chips will have all of the new bugs on them, so then you just have to give them some time until the flavors hit where you want them to be and/or they finish out. Not sure if they give a secondary time frame estimate, but I'd just plan on letting them sit and taking gravity readings/samples each month until they hit a point where it tastes good.

Watch the gravity too, if it hits a point where you like it but the gravity is still slowly dropping, you'll want to take that into account when you bottle it. The brett could still be working on it, and the fresh wine yeast at bottling could start up again on whatever's left over, leading to bombs if you're not careful. It should definitely make a tasty beer though!

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Old 06-04-2012, 10:14 PM   #6
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Never used this kit, but I'm not sure that thE Brett alone will give you the sourness you find in RR Consecration. I'm pretty sure to get sourness you need bacteria like Lacto and/or Pedio. Does the kit include these "bugs" as well?

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Old 06-04-2012, 10:18 PM   #7
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From reading about the kit it sounds like the barrel chips are actually part of an RR barrel that they broke down, so in theory they should have everything already inoculated in them. Not sure where the OP is from, but if they can get some RR beers a few dregs wouldn't hurt either .

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Old 12-22-2012, 06:41 PM   #8
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I need to revive this thread. I bought the MoreBeer Consecration kit that I am going to brew on New Years Day.
The instruction that come with the kit says:

Mash - Recommended to mash around 158-159* F

Primary - Ferment with Abbey Ale Yeast at 72* for the first 2-3 days. Let it free rise to 76* to finish out.

Secondary - Add the black currants and pitch the Brettanomyces. Sour for 4-6 months until desired sour level is reached the add the oak chunks until desired oak level is reached.

Bottle condition with wine yeast.

------
The notes on the website say:
Vinnie recommends fermenting down to around a 1.016-1.018 with Abbey Ale yeast. He recommends the temperature to be 72°F during the first few days of fermentation, and then lets it free rise to 76°F until the target gravity of 1.016 is reached.

After hitting this target gravity, he'll transfer to barrels to start the aging and souring process (a secondary fermenter will be necessary - a barrel would be preferred!) Currants and Brettanomyces are added at this point.

After approximately 7-8 weeks, you'll want to add your Lactobacillus and Pediococcus. To kill two birds with one stone, we recommend pitching Roeselare (WY3763) which contains both bacterium.

The souring process can take anywhere from four to twelve months. Once the desired sourness level is achieved, you'll want to add the Consecration barrel oak chunk(s) until desired oak character is achieved.

Vinnie uses Belgian bottles when bottling Consecration, and bottle conditions using wine yeast. He mentions that he'll never bottle if the gravity is over 1.008.

----
Two questions:
Mash at 158 to 159*? Can that be right? That seems high to me but I haven't made a beer like this before.

The instructions that come with the kit don't say anything about Lacto or Pedio at 7-8 weeks. Which set of instruction is right? Seems like you would need this but there is not mention of it in the actual kit.

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Old 12-22-2012, 07:32 PM   #9
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For your second question, after rereading my previous posts, it looks like I was definitely wrong! Now that the instructions are online, they sound like you'll want to add the additional bugs (including lacto/pedio). Not sure why they suggest adding brett, then the roeselare blend since I thought that roeselare already had brett in it. Maybe the idea is to add enough brett to get the character you want first, then to sour with the lacto/pedio until its as sour as you want? But to get the sour component, you'll definitely want something with lacto and pedio in it.

For your first question, I'm assuming part of the idea of mashing that high is to leave some dextrins that the brett can utilize that sacc can't. It also probably helps to keep the final gravity higher, since I'd wager if you mashed at 152 and added the sacc and brett, they'd combine to chew it down well past 1.018.

Edit: Misread last paragraph, they mention fermenting down to 1.008, not 1.018. The 18 is the sacc portion. Although I've heard brett can still ferment quite a bit lower than 1.008, so the higher mash is still probably better.

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Old 01-09-2013, 07:34 PM   #10
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On youtube, morebeer interviews Vinnie and he talks about the high mash temp is to feed the bacteria long term. But there is a few other good bits in the interview, but you will have to excuse the interviewer, you'll see why when you watch it. It's part 4 of a four part series.

I'm looking to brew my first sour this weekend, and I'm trying to take something Vinnie said about how he was taught. He was taught little bits, but not the whole story to give him just enough room to make it his own. So while I will be taking poiters, I'm not looking to clone it. As the guys from Brewing TV said, your sours start to get a family tree going and the charcter begins to be unique to your beers.

I was also currious if the kit came with the fruit? I was thinking of using tart cherries, but either way I would probably have to mail order. This is the first I've heard of using Black Currants.

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