Need some PM advice/clarification

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laiced

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So I am playing with a recipe for a Rye Wine that I want to get going with soon.

The problem is, I feel that I need to do a lot of specialty grains to get the complexity that I am looking for. I have always done Extract + Specialty brews and am very comfortable with this method. However, with the grain bill that I am playing with, it seems as though steeping the grains is not the best option.

First, am I wrong with that assumption?

Second, if I were to explore the option to build a MLT with an orange cylindrical cooler, can I do the following?
1) use a batch sparge process to work my grain bill
2) add that wort to boil kettle, start the boil process
3) add in LME and DME at 30 min to bring up the gravity
4) finish as normal.

My assumption is that I can make the wort with the specialty grains, start the 60 min boil, then add the extracts to get my gravity where it needs to be.

How far off am I?
 
1, 2, 3, 4) Yes!

That was easy :D

The problem with your grainbill is that you don't have any malted barley in there to convert the rye and wheat (and additional starches from the crystals). I would suggest adding 2 lbs of 2row/6row/pilsner to provide the enzymes needed to convert the starches, otherwise you'll end up with a cloudy, starchy mess.

You can even do this on your stove if you have a large enough pot (minimum ~3 gallon pot). Put all grain in your strike water, mash at 155F±5 for 60 minutes, strain through paint strainer bag. You can also put the grains in the strainer bag first, then mash, then lift the strainer bag out with all of the grains. Protecting yourself from the hot wort, be sure to squeeze the bag to get out the extra wort stuck in there. Sparge if you want, or don't. You can even have a separate boil pot filled with some water than you can use to sparge your grainbag with (just dunk it in there and let the water help rinse out the extra sugars). Then add your main wort to your sparge water. Bring up to your preboil volume and proceed as normal.

HTH!

Edit:
The important part is hitting your mash temp and maintaining it pretty well for the duration of 60 minutes.
 
St. Pug, thank you! Would you mind revisiting the recipe link above to see if I have it right?

I tinkered with the grain bill a bit to target more of the flavors that I wanted. Does it seem out of balance at all?
 
Each pound of US 2row can theoretically convert 3 lbs of unmalted grain, but you would max out the potential enzymes at that point. To ensure complete conversion of unmalted grain at this ratio, you would need to give the mash a little longer AND ensure stable temperatures throughout the mashing process. You are looking at that ratio (1:3) with your current grainbill, BUT you are using some crystal and roasted malts - both of which don't have the potential of base or unmalted grains so I think you're use of 2 lbs is still sufficient. Just recognize you are on the cusp.

As for the actual recipe, I'd have a hard time guessing the final result due to the magnitude of the beer. On paper, it looks like it could be a Belgian Quad with a rye-spice kick and a few more IBUs. On paper, it sounds like I'd drink one in an evening. You may be looking at a "Ready by" date of 9-12 months from now with a shelf life of 3-5x that length. This is a big beer and will do good with age - and it will keep for a long time as well.

Some thoughts on this beer: The higher the gravity of a beer the more prone to ester/phenol formation so I'd expect a lot of the yeast to come through. The higher the gravity of a beer the more you need to manage your fermentation schedule to ensure full attenuation which probably means pitching cool; letting it naturally warm up over 2 days to around 70; and then making sure the temperature never slips back down after that for at least 2 weeks. Belgian yeast strains have a knack for getting lazy if there is a temperature slip and they just stop working; and will not be roused. The higher gravity of the beer the more oxygen will be required for full attenuation which means you SHOULD use O2 (shaking/splashing will not be enough for this beer). In fact, when you start looking at 10+% beers you should strongly consider more O2 aeration at 18 hours after pitching. High gravity beers have a tendency to run away from you in terms of fermentation temperature within the first couple days and can easily jump 10+ degrees warmer than expected, so again it's important that you closely monitor the fermentation schedule of this beer for 2-3 days after which you just need to make sure the temperature never slips down from it's high point. I'm not trying to deter you from brewing this beer, quite the opposite. I'm giving some suggestions to set you up for a successful fully attenuated beer.
 
I cannot thank you enough for you advice, St. Pug! I am super comfortable with a normal Extract + Specialty brew, but this one is pushing my boundaries on two fronts (high gravity and PMing), so I appreciate all of the insight.

I am planning on picking up an O2 regulator and canister while I get the materials needed to build the cylindrical MLT - I know that this is going to need a lot of oxygen.

I will create a nice starter and might splurge on a stirplate as well, but that would push my budget right now.

I am pretty confident that I can control my fermentation temp by relocating to various places around the house/garage. I have an unfinished basement and a cold storage room down there, so if it gets too crazy, I can relocate. I can also throw it in the spare bath with cold water/ice if needed as well. I am confident that I can keep it within a few degrees.

As for the timing of the beer, I am hoping it will be ready by late fall, early winter as a heavy warmer. I drink heavier beers more frequently that most, I imagine, so I know I will crack a bottle no matter the season. It is intended to be a heavy, winter warmer though. I plan on having some bottles of this around for 2-3 years - if its less than that, I will happily brew more though ;)
 
As an update, I bought all the materials necessary to build a MLT with the orange drink cooler. I also bought the materials necessary to build a stir plate, along with a 2000ml Erlenmeyer. I just need to get my aeration system and I should be all set.

There has been a lot of insight over on the recipe post for this endeavor. There are some of the iterations that St. Pug has mentioned here, but with less confidence that I can get my attenuation anywhere near producing a final gravity of 1.026.
 
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