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Old 10-26-2011, 04:25 PM   #1
ImperialStout
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Default Need help adjusting recipe / process

The link below is my recipe. Posted notes there so will not post here. Can post recipe and notes here if needed.

http://hopville.com/recipe/883021/imperial-ipa-recipes/beagle-bier-ipa-1.

Next time will use Irish Moss and not dry hop to address clarity and excessive hoppy taste but do not have a clue how to give this beer more body.

Note: Applied advice on increasing efficiency. This brew was 51% but next brew was 59%. Part of advice was to increase grind but LHBS grinds grain and said a finer grind would turn grist to paste but I am not so sure about that.

Read one small or craft brewery grinds some grain course and some fine. Theory is course grain acts as filter for fine grain so mash does not get stuck or leach tannins. Going to a more distant LHBS for advise too but thought someone here might know.

Any advice on what grain grinder to get and what settings give a fine / course grind?



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Old 10-26-2011, 05:07 PM   #2
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I'm not sure if you are asking about increasing efficiency or whether you want to increase the body of the beer. I think you are actually asking both... So... To increase body, I would suggest mashing at a higher temp. I think an IPA would be nice at about 151 F, but if you wanted a little more body, and hence less attenuation, you need to mash a bit higher. If you got down from 1.051 to 1.008, it tells me that you are getting really good attenuation and might be mashing down in the 146-148 range. So first check your temps and obviously the accuracy of your thermometer.

Efficiency issues can be related to several causes. PH, grind (usually the culprit), sparge, etc. If your LHBS is grinding and they say that it will be powder, I would wonder what they are using to grind and at what gap setting. To eliminate this variable, I would check to see if there is another LHBS or a friend or an online HBS that you could get the next grain from to see if it changes efficiency. Also, what kind of water are you using? How are you sparging? As far as settings, I use .045" and it seems about perfect. I get about 80-85% efficiency. A tighter setting like .039" is good for wheat, but might be on the extreme edge for barley.



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Old 10-27-2011, 07:39 PM   #3
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I am asking about both, how to increase body and if crushing some barley fine and some coarse will improve efficiency without leaching tannins or creating a stuck sparge.

I mash with 3.5 gal strike water at 170 F so mash temp will be 155 F and batch sparge with 3 gal water.

How are more body and less attenuation related?

It's funny you would say it sounds to you my mash temp was down around 146 - 148 range. It may well have been. Was using a lab thermometer that may be reading 10 deg high. Just bought an 8 gal brew pot with a Blickman thermometer and an inexpensive digital food thermometer with 36" probe meant for use in the oven. The Blickman and the food thermometer agree but the lab thermometer reads 10 deg higher. I'll bet the Blickman is accurate so with the lab thermometer reading 155 it most likely was 145.

Am going to a more distant LHBS to see about crush and having our water tested. I take it you are using a roller crusher instead of the meat grinder looking one?

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Old 10-27-2011, 09:47 PM   #4
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When you mash at a higher temperature you end up with longer chain sugars that are less fermentable. Since the wort is less fermentable, the yeast are not able to eat as much of the wort... which leaves a higher FG. The higher FG means there are more sugars left in the beer which gives more body but more of a residual sweetness. A more fermented wort (IOW when you have higher attenuation) will bring the FG down which gives a "thinness" to the body. That is why if you look at recipes, beers that traditionally have a lot of body, like many stouts, are mashed in the 155-158 range. Yet thinner body beers like some lagers are mashed much lower in the 146-148 range. A medium body beer like an IPA is often fermented around 150-152. Simply put: higher mash temp=less attenuation(higher FG) and more body, lower mash temp=higher attenuation (lower FG) and less body.

Yes, I use a monster mill roller crusher. I've never used a meat grinder so I can't attest to how they work. My educated guess would be that since very few people actually use them, they probably aren't very good for crushing malt properly.

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Old 10-27-2011, 10:11 PM   #5
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I gotta disagree a little bit here. Oligosaccharides like dextrins do not generally taste sweet, so a high FG does NOT mean the beer WILL taste sweet. Long-chain sugars, for the most part, just contribute a smooth texture and strong foam.

Extant is a heterogeneity of procedures for feline epidermis removal. A change of yeast strains alone could get the OP most of the desired results, I bet.

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Old 10-27-2011, 10:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 944play View Post
I gotta disagree a little bit here. Oligosaccharides like dextrins do not generally taste sweet, so a high FG does NOT mean the beer WILL taste sweet. Long-chain sugars, for the most part, just contribute a smooth texture and strong foam.

Extant is a heterogeneity of procedures for feline epidermis removal. A change of yeast strains alone could get the OP most of the desired results, I bet.
Well I wasn't trying to be hyper-technical. Many people in my experience report a higher FG beer as being "more sweet" but it very well could be a lay explanation for flavor they are experiencing. I didn't consider the yeast much because his posted recipe says he is using California Ale which has lower average attenuation... he is getting rather high attenuation. But I would agree that yeast strain could be a factor to consider.

OH by the way....WTF is the "feline epidermis removal" supposed to mean... sounds suspicously like skinning a cat, but I'm not getting the joke.
EDIT: BTW, I just reread this and it kind of sounds like I'm being a smartass... but I don't mean this that way! So I apologize if it comes across that way!
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:54 AM   #7
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Thank you Big B, that makes sense on one level. I know the OG is higher than the FG because alcohol has a lower gravity than water and is "thinner". It stands to reason a higher FG means lower alcohol and more body.

The more I learn about brewing the more complex it becomes. Don't need an answer on this one but there are high alcohol stouts with good body. Geary's Wee Heavy, North Coast's Old Rasputin and Victory's Storm King come to mind. Looking for a way to brew a big beer with body.

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Old 10-28-2011, 01:26 AM   #8
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No, that is a valid observation. Just as there are some really high alcohol Belgian beers that have alot of body. Attenuation is just one factor. But, also remember that most of those beers that have more body don't have really low FG either. So, another way to increase the alcohol while not being too thin, is by increasing the OG. Your OG was only 1.051... That is an average OG on many of my beers... and yet most of my beers are only about 5.0-5.5%. My FG'S typically finish around 1.012-1.014 though.

Here's a good chapter from How to brew: http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter20-1.html

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Old 10-28-2011, 02:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigB View Post
Well I wasn't trying to be hyper-technical. Many people in my experience report a higher FG beer as being "more sweet" but it very well could be a lay explanation for flavor they are experiencing. I didn't consider the yeast much because his posted recipe says he is using California Ale which has lower average attenuation... he is getting rather high attenuation. But I would agree that yeast strain could be a factor to consider.

OH by the way....WTF is the "feline epidermis removal" supposed to mean... sounds suspicously like skinning a cat, but I'm not getting the joke.
EDIT: BTW, I just reread this and it kind of sounds like I'm being a smartass... but I don't mean this that way! So I apologize if it comes across that way!
Extant is a heterogeneity of procedures for feline epidermis removal.
=
There's more than one way to skin a cat.
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:50 PM   #10
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Thanks Big B. That one section in Palmer's book on increasing body is a lot to digest. Am reading the book but no where near Chap 20. Brewing is like a chemical Rubic's Cube, each piece is connected to the next, but there are several ways to get to what you want. Will experiment with these methods and see what happens. My approach to learning how to brew is to make two beers, an IPA and a RIS, making adjustments as necessary until I get the beer I want.



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