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Old 08-26-2011, 09:51 PM   #31
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What did I do some math wrong some where? Or are you just picking on me for using Metric.... don't go there it will hurt.

Clem

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Old 08-26-2011, 09:59 PM   #32
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What did I do some math wrong some where? Or are you just picking on me for using Metric.... don't go there it will hurt.

Clem
Nope, you are spot on. Somehow I got the idea in my head your math came out to a 20L starter...not batch size haha
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Old 08-26-2011, 11:04 PM   #33
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At the risk of being off topic I have two things, one question and one opinion

Question
I also am really interested in your gram method of measuring yeast. Are you just measuring the weight of the slurry with a set amount of liquid present or are you doing some fancy thing of measuring volume and weight and FG of wort and figuring out how much of the sample is yeast and how much is spent wort?
I am all about off topic

For backstory, I wash yeast similar to the sticky (let me know if you need a link to it). I do sterile water and do 20 minute rest in fermenter, pour off, 20 minute rest in container, pour off 20 min in container, then into sterilized jars.

As for your actual question I simply and quite literally pour off all the liquid after the yeast has compacted and measure the yeast I need by spooning out. i.e. on brew day I grab a jar, pour off all of the water and leave the compacted yeast. I set it aside and let it come to room temp while i brew. Then I spoon it out to get gram weight and pitch. If the yeast is older I may add a touch more.

I would love to tell you it is really fancy and complicated... but it isn't !



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Opinion


I found Mr Malty to be a pitch rate of 8.5ish Million Yeast Cells per ml of wort (@1.048) so it is in the middle of the suggested range of 6-10 Million Yeast Cells per ml of wort. I made my own yeast calc tool so I could control the pitch rate. I used a formula that I found in a number of places but it is

(OG-1)/48*1000*pitchrate(MYC/ml)*ml of wort

Pitch rate 6-10MYC/ml
5.25 gallon approx 20 000ml (20liters)

Clem
so i lost you hear - well at least half of it

What is your rate per ml of wort?
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Old 08-27-2011, 12:48 AM   #34
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so i lost you hear - well at least half of it

What is your rate per ml of wort?

My point is people seem to take Mr Malty as a gospel (according to St Jamil) and although I use it as a double check, I prefer to do the math myself. If you pitch Mr Malty numbers (obviously you have your own system) then I would say your are definitely not over pitching. When you punch number in to Mr Malty I get a value lower than 10MYC/ml of wort at 1.048. Hence I trust my own calculator and since using it have not had a stuck brew. I try to pitch at 10MYC/ml of wort for a 1.048 wort.

That said until I can get my yeast to do a roll call we aren't going to have any exact numbers.

I like the weighing idea, I'm going to try that, although my current method is working well for me I like to play around with things. I grow my yeast from slants. I have had a couple of suspect yeast tubes from LHBS (not his fault but rather a factor of living in Hawaii) I can apply the same principle to my stepped starter from slants as you do to your starters from cakes, I'll report back on my findings.

Clem
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:15 AM   #35
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My point is people seem to take Mr Malty as a gospel (according to St Jamil) and although I use it as a double check, I prefer to do the math myself. If you pitch Mr Malty numbers (obviously you have your own system) then I would say your are definitely not over pitching. When you punch number in to Mr Malty I get a value lower than 10MYC/ml of wort at 1.048. Hence I trust my own calculator and since using it have not had a stuck brew. I try to pitch at 10MYC/ml of wort for a 1.048 wort.

That said until I can get my yeast to do a roll call we aren't going to have any exact numbers.

I like the weighing idea, I'm going to try that, although my current method is working well for me I like to play around with things. I grow my yeast from slants. I have had a couple of suspect yeast tubes from LHBS (not his fault but rather a factor of living in Hawaii) I can apply the same principle to my stepped starter from slants as you do to your starters from cakes, I'll report back on my findings.

Clem
Gotcha. I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

As you also said you can't get your yeast to do a roll call. I was tired of trying to guess what I thought the right pitch rate was, and growing starters days in advance to then chill and decant. So I started weighing after I made some estimates to what I thought the yeast viability was.

I think that even though sometimes in brewing you might not have the best practice, it is what works best for how you brew. That is what I am shooting for. Let me know how it works out for you.

oh by the way "I have had a couple of suspect yeast tubes from LHBS (not his fault but rather a factor of living in Hawaii)" nobody is feeling sorry for people who live in hawaii! haha
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:48 PM   #36
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Just out of curiosity....how do you guys know hom many yeast cells you have? After you do a starter that is? All this pitching rate stuff has likely come from breweries big enough to have a microscope to count viable cells per mL.

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Old 08-30-2011, 06:50 PM   #37
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Just out of curiosity....how do you guys know hom many yeast cells you have? After you do a starter that is? All this pitching rate stuff has likely come from breweries big enough to have a microscope to count viable cells per mL.
There are rough calculations that estimate the amound of yeast produced in X volume of wort with Y specific gravity. The calculations aren't anywhere close to exact since different yeast strains have different flocculation levels and other variables, but they are close enough for our applications!
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:17 PM   #38
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To add to this, research, reading etc suggests that when properly washing yeast at home we can reasonably expect in the range of 80-90% viability (based on lots of factors on how and when you harvest the yeast to wash). The numbers in my chart (post 28) assume 85% viability as I noted on that post.

Of course we don't know for sure how accurate we are, but I would say we are hitting near our intended goals. If I was way off, I would likely see longer lag times in fermentation start up, or perhaps experience over pitching issues (which are probably much less common).

As I said before, this is one of those things for me, that personally seems to be working well. Perhaps if you did the same it wouldn't work as well based on how you harvest, how you estimate your current yeast's viability etc. But for now it is convenient and quick and easy on brew day.

The mr malty formula was not made by a brewery. It was made from some lab work and experience from Jamil and his entourage according to their website if memory serves. So I think a calculator like that is aimed more towards HBers

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Old 09-01-2011, 12:31 PM   #39
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OK so sorta back on topic

This is my water report:



If anything jumps out at you let me know what you think and what my water should be good/bad for.

looks like my bicarbonates are in the high range, which i believe means I should have pretty good water for brewing darker maltier styles than lighter pales and lagers. I think based on how to brew's water information I am closest to the Dublin style water profile. I am going to go ahead and guess that a hefe should be looking for a lower bi carbonate brewing style. So it looks like to get there I would have to dilute the water with distilled? Checking out bru'n water

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Old 09-01-2011, 09:10 PM   #40
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I appreciated all the insightful comments along the way in this thread. I've got a semi-funked hefe right now that I'd considered lost but have resigned to just sort of forget about for a couple of months and see what happens. There was a lot of corny/veggie/DMS flavor in it at pitching due to some chilling problems (pump broke; had to chill overnight, etc.), and there was a sharp tartness to it both at pitching & bottling that was not at all pleasant. Cracked a bottle after two weeks of conditioning--still corny, still kind of sharp, though not as much as before. Actually got a hint of clove and banana under everything, it carbonated well and has decent body. So I'm good with waiting.

My specific question has to do with an aroma I got at bottling, after opening a bottle at two weeks, and which was still very present when I opened a bottle today (after almost a month). The best way to describe it would be funk--like the way an active fermentation smells. Like yeast doing its thing. Not sulfurous, exactly, or like rotten eggs. More of a bready, yeasty thing, but still very funky. Deep down underneath it you get the esters, but just barely. Is there a specific term used to reference this? Is it indicative of anything that might have gone wonky with the fermentation (higher than ideal temperatures were definitely a factor in SW OH this July).

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