Nasty All Grain Taste

kdsarch · 01-18-2008, 01:12 AM

Okay, I am not sure what is going on here. My last two all grain beers have a nasty medicine type taste to them? I have successfully done partial mashes in the past, but my first two all grains are disgusting. I was wondering if the 5.2 ph stabilizer could be the culprit, or something else?

Any ideas?

**Yooper** · 01-18-2008, 01:15 AM

Well, I have a couple of ideas. What was your recipe, what yeast did you use, what temperature did you ferment at, and what is your water like? did you use bottled water, or tap water?

BigEd · 01-18-2008, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdsarch

Okay, I am not sure what is going on here. My last two all grain beers have a nasty medicine type taste to them? I have successfully done partial mashes in the past, but my first two all grains are disgusting. I was wondering if the 5.2 ph stabilizer could be the culprit, or something else?

Any ideas?

Medicine taste sounds like phenols which tends to indicate either an infection or too high of a fermentation tempertaure.

kdsarch · 01-18-2008, 01:22 AM

Interesting. One was a pale ale the other a scotch ale. I use white labs yeast for both. American San Fran for the Pale Ale, and Edinburgh Ale for the Scotch Ale.

The water was bottled spring water.

I just invested in a brew belt since brewing here in the northeast in the winter is somewhat cold. I have had slow ferment starts int the past so I bought a brew belt and used it on these two brews. I kept it on for a week. The temperatures did not seem overly high though, say 65 - 70 degrees.

How high would the temperature have to be to create the phenols? Do you think the 70 degree range could have done it?

**Yooper** · 01-18-2008, 01:31 AM

I wouldn't think so, but I wonder if INSIDE the carboy it was more like 75 degrees? Was that the temperature of the probe inside the carboy/bucket, or was that the temperature on the thermometer strip?

kdsarch · 01-18-2008, 01:35 AM

That was the temperature on the temperature strip on a glass carboy (in the basement) The air temperature in the basement was about 55 to 60 degrees.

I was also wondering if perhaps i over sparged the mash.

On www.homebrewforums.com they have the following:

"Cause: Bacterial Contamination can be responsible, or not rinsing your equipment thoroughly after sanitizing with bleach is another culprit. Also, phenols can be leached from the grain husks by overcrushing or oversparging your malt."

It sounds like i might not have sparged correctly. What I did was have water flowing out of the mash ton while water was flowing into the top of the tun from the hot liquor tank. It sounds like for the second sparge i should just add all of the water to the tank and then drain it.

what do you think?

McCall St. Brewer · 01-18-2008, 02:38 AM

I have a 110 year old victorian home in Wisconsin. At this time of year the basement is really cool. I normally ferment at about 57F in the winter. My beers turn out fine. Sometimes better than in summer. Fermentation may be a little slower down there at this time of year, but no problem with that.

I don't know if the brewbelt is your problem or not. I would thoroughly clean and sanitize, and if possible even sterilize anything that's glass or metal that touches your beer during fermentation. Get rid of your hoses and get new ones. Go over and analyze your brewing process to see if you are doing anything that may cause a high risk of infection. Maybe try fermenting cooler and see if that helps.

BigEd · 01-18-2008, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdsarch

That was the temperature on the temperature strip on a glass carboy (in the basement) The air temperature in the basement was about 55 to 60 degrees.

I was also wondering if perhaps i over sparged the mash.

On www.homebrewforums.com they have the following:

"Cause: Bacterial Contamination can be responsible, or not rinsing your equipment thoroughly after sanitizing with bleach is another culprit. Also, phenols can be leached from the grain husks by overcrushing or oversparging your malt."

It sounds like i might not have sparged correctly. What I did was have water flowing out of the mash ton while water was flowing into the top of the tun from the hot liquor tank. It sounds like for the second sparge i should just add all of the water to the tank and then drain it.

what do you think?

I hate to say it but I would lean towards an infection. Oversparging can lead to problems but the compounds dissolved by doing that will almost always lead to a tannic/astringent quality to the beer, not a medicinal taste. Phenolic tastes and aromas are part of the profile of many Belgian yeasts. In many ways these yeasts are "wild" compared to their English, American and German counterparts. These flavors in a non-Belgian beer are most often from wild yeast or bacteria.

**TexLaw** · 01-18-2008, 02:45 AM

I tend to think infection, too. Those medicinal phenols are often what happens when you get an undesireable "house flavor." When was the last time you changed out all your tubing and rubber?

TL

kdsarch · 01-18-2008, 02:46 AM

Thanks for the info. I am very meticulous about sanitizing everything, but I will be extra careful this weekend. I have a pale ale on the schedule again. I will also skip the brew belt and buy new hoses, and be a little more careful with the sparge.

Hopefully that will take care of the awful taste. I will let you know.