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Old 10-11-2012, 05:33 AM   #21
Brulosopher
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I raised the temp in my fermentation freezer from 63 to 69... and my airlock was bubbling like crazy when I got home for work. Ahh, finally.

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Old 10-13-2012, 08:38 PM   #22
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Just dumped it... BIAB is great. That beer? Not so much... ugh!

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Old 10-13-2012, 08:44 PM   #23
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Well if the whole point of this post was to make us jealous of your brewery setup..it worked!! grr.

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Old 10-13-2012, 08:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbsmith
Well if the whole point of this post was to make us jealous of your brewery setup..it worked!! grr.
Hahaha... or to embarrass myself I'm currently using the setup now, brewing two 5 gal batches side by side- Stout and Sticke
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Old 10-14-2012, 01:04 AM   #25
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Glad you enjoyed your BIAB experience. Regarding your low efficiency, remember you won't stick a mash with BIAB so grind the crap out of your grain. Check out the pictures. I get my grain bills milled when I order them, then I run them through my corona mill again on brewday. Note how much finer it is after the second grind. I use Irish Moss at the end of the boil, and my beers are crystal clear.

milled-hbs.jpg   re-milled.jpg  
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:24 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brulosopher
Just read this, and sighed... from BYO:

The problem with thin mashes is enzyme stability. Enzymes are less stable in a thin mash and denaturation can become a real problem. The enzyme of concern is beta-amylase, since there is a limiting supply of beta-amylase in comparison to alpha-amylase. If beta-amylase denatures too quickly, then the resulting wort will have a decreased fermentability.

Sh!t
I mash pretty thin and have never had any issues with fermentability, or lack thereof at least. I shoot for 6.5 gallons of wort post boil and usually start with around 8-9 gallons depending on grist and boil time.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:13 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by AnchorBock View Post
I mash pretty thin and have never had any issues with fermentability, or lack thereof at least. I shoot for 6.5 gallons of wort post boil and usually start with around 8-9 gallons depending on grist and boil time.
Define "thin". It means different things in different contexts.
For traditional mashing, 2- may be considered thin.
For BIAB I am wondering if 3-1 is ok. 4-1?
For "thin" BIAB mashes, call it 4-1, I think you need to mash longer, and ad lower temperatures. I think a 4-1 thickness (thinness) at 156 would not work as well, due to the Beta Amylase being denatured.


The only problem with grinding too fine is you may end up with flour (and husk bits) in your ferementor.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:49 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcLight View Post
Define "thin". It means different things in different contexts.
For traditional mashing, 2- may be considered thin.
For BIAB I am wondering if 3-1 is ok. 4-1?
For "thin" BIAB mashes, call it 4-1, I think you need to mash longer, and ad lower temperatures. I think a 4-1 thickness (thinness) at 156 would not work as well, due to the Beta Amylase being denatured.


The only problem with grinding too fine is you may end up with flour (and husk bits) in your ferementor.
Last few batches ranged from 2.5 qt/lb (mash at 151, 16 lbs grist) up to 3.95 qt/lb (mash at 158, 8 lbs grist). I do full volume mashes always and haven't found the water-grist ratio to be too important for my process. I've been experimenting with 60 minute mashes for some batches lately and have definitely found that to produce a less fermentable wort than a 90 minute mash(which is what I was targeting) and my efficiency has dropped a couple % as well, but this isn't real definitive data yet.

I agree about grinding too fine - I use the standard setting at the LHBS and don't mind if there's a hit to efficiency to avoid grinding to a pulp and ending up with even more trub than I already do (I leave 1.25-1.5 gallons of wort/trub behind every batch).
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:41 PM   #29
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>.up to 3.95 qt/lb (mash at 158, 8 lbs grist).

I am interested in the mash thinness vs conversion curve. At what point is the mash too thin, with respect to OG and FG? At some point I would like to experiment. Maybe 3 experiments 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, at 150F. I suspect the thinner mashes need more time (90+ minutes instead of 60). Then repeat at 155F, see if the Beta Amylase is denatured before it can do its job.
On the other hand, a tight crush may partially offset the thinness, so it would require quite a few experiments, especially if one wants to repeat them, though I could do them on my stove with small quantities of grain and water.

>.up to 3.95 qt/lb (mash at 158, 8 lbs grist).
At that temperature it just seems "too thin", as the Beta Amylase gets denatured quickly.
I think this will be noticeably less fermentable.
But without an experiment, there is no proof as to what is too thin.

When I BIAB mash I aim for full volume + grain, but its never thinner than 3-1.
The bigger gain bills are a problem, as I mash thicker, and then soak the bag in 2 gallons to rinse out the extra sugar.

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Old 10-15-2012, 01:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcLight View Post
>.up to 3.95 qt/lb (mash at 158, 8 lbs grist).

I am interested in the mash thinness vs conversion curve. At what point is the mash too thin, with respect to OG and FG? At some point I would like to experiment. Maybe 3 experiments 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, at 150F. I suspect the thinner mashes need more time (90+ minutes instead of 60). Then repeat at 155F, see if the Beta Amylase is denatured before it can do its job.
On the other hand, a tight crush may partially offset the thinness, so it would require quite a few experiments, especially if one wants to repeat them, though I could do them on my stove with small quantities of grain and water.

>.up to 3.95 qt/lb (mash at 158, 8 lbs grist).
At that temperature it just seems "too thin", as the Beta Amylase gets denatured quickly.
I think this will be noticeably less fermentable.
But without an experiment, there is no proof as to what is too thin.

When I BIAB mash I aim for full volume + grain, but its never thinner than 3-1.
The bigger gain bills are a problem, as I mash thicker, and then soak the bag in 2 gallons to rinse out the extra sugar.
Have you read this - http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php...fusion_mashing ?

"water to grist ratio: the enzymatic activity of the amylases is effected by the thickness of the mash. Thinner mashes enhance the maltose production and therefore increase the fermentability."

The 158 mash with 8 lbs of grist was only a 60 minute mash and went from 1.042 to 1.016 (Scottish 70/-) with WLP001 - I really haven't seen a change in attenuation based on mash thickness, only on the sach rest temp. Thinner mashes with BIAB seem to increase mash efficiency though - hard to say if that's only from using less grain though as opposed to the thin mash.
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