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Old 05-28-2008, 09:57 PM   #1
bigears
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Default Munich/Vienna in an IPA?

Hi there,

I'm wondering if anyone has used more than a handful of Vienna or Munich in an IPA and what the results have been? I have some of both to use up and would like to get an idea of how they would contribute.

My recipe is going to be along these lines (measurments may look odd as I've converted from kilos & grams). This will yield somewhere around 10 US gallons after the boil based on 70% efficiency. I'm quite open to the beer having a malty backbone but I haven't used much Vienna or Munich so I'm curious to know if these additions will keep the beer roughly in style. I'd appreciate any feedback

Original Gravity: 1.064
Color: 11.1
Bitterness: 60

Ingredients:
20.94 lbs Maris Otter (74.2%)
4.4 lbs Munich Malt (15.6%)
2.2 lbs Vienna Malt (7.8%)
0.66 lbs Wheat Malt (2.3%)
1.76 oz Warrior (16.4%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1.06 oz Columbus (13.7%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min
0.88 oz Columbus (13.7%) - added during boil, boiled 0 min

Dry hop with Columbus

Yeast: US 05

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Old 05-28-2008, 10:10 PM   #2
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Yeah, I use a ton of Munich in my Murder recipe, and have used it in large quantities to great success in APAs (well, they're more amber ales than pale). I'm not convinced you can use too much Munich.

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Old 05-28-2008, 10:25 PM   #3
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Sounds good. Normally I would use some Crystal but I think using some Munich/Vienna might provide enough malty sweetness to drop the Crystal - is this something you would go along with?

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Old 05-28-2008, 10:36 PM   #4
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The Munich gives maltiness without necessarily being sweet - which I think is perfect for an IPA. I'll still use a little crystal, but not very much.

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Old 05-28-2008, 10:37 PM   #5
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Thanks bird, something for me to work on then. I'll post the final recipe if it works out well

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Old 05-29-2008, 01:27 AM   #6
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I used Munich once in an IPA (10.5# Maris Otter, 1.5# Munich, 0.25# Crystal 55L with 5 oz Cascades for 5 US gallons). OG was 1.074, FG 1.013. Bitterness was good, hop flavor was (and still is) great. Hop aroma was great, but has since faded somewhat.
There were two major problems with this brew.
First, I screwed up on the priming sugar addition, resulting in an under carbonated brew (even by English standards).
Second, it has an overpoweringly malty flavor which I can only attribute to the Munich. Chilling to American temperatures helps to reduce this problem, but accentuates the under carbonation.
Ray Daniels in Designing Great Beers, recommends keeping the additions of Munich, Vienna, and other character malts to "up to 5% of the grist".
Next time I try a similar brew, I'll reduce the Munich to 0.5#, replace the 10.5# of Maris Otter with 11.5# Pearle, and pay more attention to the priming sugar.

-a.

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Old 05-29-2008, 02:56 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bird View Post
I'm not convinced you can use too much Munich.
you can't especially with hops to balance.
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:26 AM   #8
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I like my ipa's to have more hop flavour and aroma and would change to low alpha hops (cascade, goldings but prefer saaz D or saaz B being from New Zealand) and around 100-150 grams late in the boil.

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Old 05-29-2008, 08:46 AM   #9
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Thanks for all the comments. I think I'll go ahead and do something along the lines of the recipe above. I've done a few IPAs with a pale/crystal grain bill and Cascade/Amarillo combinations recently so I'd like to experiment a little. I don't mind the beer being malty as the hops will balance that out. I may up the aroma addition though, I am looking a little light in that respect. I plan to split the brew in two for fermentation, using US 05 in one half and S 04 in the other, I'll probably dry hop half with an American aroma hop and the other half with an English hop.

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Old 05-29-2008, 01:47 PM   #10
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Just a FWIW and to build off AFJ's point...I had a double IPA at a local brewpub last night that had a considerable amount of munich and crystal that was just awful...way too sweet with way too much body and an awful combo of cloying sweetness and hop bitterness in the finish that was just unpleasant. Be careful of crossing that line.

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