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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Mouthfeel Confused What the heck is going on?
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:36 AM   #1
Vintage63
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Default Mouthfeel Confused What the heck is going on?

I brewed a 10 gallon batch (split into 5 gal carboys) all grain American Pale Ale recipe. With 5 gallon batches my system is averaging around 65-67% overall efficiency.

Grain Bill:

American 2 Row 86%
Munich 5.1%
Victory 5.1%
Wheat malt 3.8%

I set up the recipe using the same efficiency percentage and ended up with an overall efficiency of 80% according to Beer Smith and over-shooting OG. My target was approximately 1.057 and it hit 1.070.

Mash temp was held spot on at 152F for 60 minutes.

I added oxygen (1 minute of flow) and then pitched a 1L starter (decanted) of WLP London Ale into one of the carboys and held at 68F for the first 72 hours. From there, I bumped it by 1F each day until it got to 71-72F. With the majority of fermentation complete, I added 1 oz of dry hop for 7 days and then cold crashed.

I held at 33F for a couple of days and then racked to a keg and added a recommend amount of finings (gelatin).

The FG came in at 1.017
The calculated attenuation was 74.4% according to Beer Smith.

I’ve had it carbonating at 38F at approx. 11 PSI – shooting for about 2.4 -2.5 volumes for the last 12 days.

I pulled a small taster and it is thinner than I had expected.

What could be contributing to this? Maybe the mash temp would have better at 154? Maybe the attenuation is impacting the sugars? Maybe the overall efficiency ended up being too high, thus a higher OG of 1.070 rather than the projected target of 1.057 - 1.060.

Just when I thought I was closer to dialing-in my process for more consistent brewing, I am once again puzzled.

Thanks for the help, insight and any suggestions!

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Old 03-06-2013, 05:04 AM   #2
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Ive found mouthfeel develops a lot with carbonation, so id bottle and rdwhahb

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Old 03-06-2013, 05:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicklepickles
Ive found mouthfeel develops a lot with carbonation, so id bottle and rdwhahb
Woops, missed the part where you said youd kegged
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:04 PM   #4
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This is just a guess on my part. You didn't describe your mash equipment, so is it possible that with 5 gallon mashes you generally lose a couple of degrees due to the increased amount of air space in the tun. Mouthfeel generally comes from more unfermentables in the mash. Lower mash temps will give you an increase in the amount of unfermentables. So with a 5 gallon batch you may start at 152, and lose a couple of degrees to say 150, therefore having a lower OG, and therefore a lower efficiency.

You also may have gotten a much finer crush on the grains, do you mill your own?

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Old 03-06-2013, 01:47 PM   #5
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I'm guessing its not fully carbonated yet. The set and forget carb method usually takes a full two weeks or more to get my beer where it needs to be in terms of carbonation and mouthfeel. I usualy blast my kegs with 30 psi for a few days before dialing back to 11 psi for a week. Thats worked well for me so far

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Old 03-06-2013, 01:54 PM   #6
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Let it fully carb and check, double check, and triple check your thermometer. Check with ice water, and boiling water. Just a couple degrees off and you can go from thin beer to full beer very easily.

I find that for my water, brewing equipment, and tastes that I generally get better results when I add 2 degrees to the recipe's mash temp. For whatever reasons, my brewhouse produces a "better" beer when mashed a bit hotter than what is recommended. I tried for many brews to figure out why, but with so many variables, just adding 2 degrees was too simple to dismiss.

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Old 03-06-2013, 05:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunfighter04
Lower mash temps will give you an increase in the amount of unfermentables.
I think you are mistaken. I have always equated mouthfeel and more fermentables with HIGHER mash temps.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/mash...thfeel-342034/

There is also a guy on youtube who gives a good description of enzyme activity and the effects of different mash temps.
http://m.youtube.com/results?q=mash%...?v=1PSvCRtVdZU
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:35 PM   #8
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you might also be looking for something that just isn't there. Try adding other specialty malts like cara, melanoidin, or other crystal malts that contain unfermentables to begin with

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Old 03-06-2013, 06:26 PM   #9
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Perhaps giving a more detailed account of your mashing process would expose more potential problems. You held the mash temp at 152 for the 60 minutes -how long did it take to transfer to the kettle? Did you mash out? Did you batch or fly sparge? How long did it take to begin sparging after the mash? Conversion can still take place if the temperature of the mash/runnings are not increased beyond active levels. My initial theory is that the wort got cooler after the mash and converted some of the mouthfeel sugars to fermentables.

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Old 03-06-2013, 06:49 PM   #10
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Like most, I think you've got two possibilities.

My first guess would be carb level. I've found that when the beer first reaches proper level, it takes a day or 3 (I'm not a daily taster sometimes) for the mouthfeel to fill out. Hopefully it's just that.

The second issue would be the combination of grain bill and mash regime. 152F is on the lower end, and with some slight variation could explain the lack. But when I went back and looked at your grain bill, I noted that not only do you have fairly few "mouthfeel" grains in there, but those are also at pretty low levels. You might add flaked oats if, like me, you're not a big fan of caramel malt in your pale ales.

On a side note, I've had the same efficiency since I changed mash tuns. I got a 106qt cooler for Christmas, and my efficiency--even on an RIS recently--has risen from ~70% to ~76-80%.

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