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Old 03-18-2013, 05:57 PM   #1
DPBISME
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Default Modified Decoction Triple

So I want to brew a Westmalle Tripel Clone and I want to do 11 gallons.

If I follow the directions from every recipe I have seen it wants me to mash in with a ratio of 1 to 1.5 and heat the mash over the course of an hour or use the schedule below


Name-------------Description Step Temp Step Time

Acid Rest------Add 21.00 qt at----97.8 F 95.0 F ----15 min
Protein Rest---Add 0.00 qt at----122.0 F 122.0 F----15 min
Gluten Rest----Add 0.00 qt at----131.0 F 131.0 F----15 min
Beta Rest------Add 0.00 qt at----144.0 F 144.0 F----30 min
Full Beta Rest-Add 0.00 qt at----148.0 F 148.0 F----90 min
Mashout--------Add 0.00 qt at----170.0 F 170.0 F----15 min
I can’t do that with my equipment but I was thinking that I could mash with a mash thickness of 1 to 1 and then pull out a quart of mash every few minutes, add it to a quart of water, and return it to the mash.

If my calculations are correct I will have to do this about sixteen (16) times to get it to 148 degrees and have a mash thickness of about 1 to 1.5.

Then Batch Sparge as normal.

I would do a straight decoction but the times above don’t seem to lend them self to such short times and at minimum I will have really good temperature control since I am going up by 2 quarts at a time…

DPB
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:54 PM   #2
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Please post that recipe. I think your goal to simplify the mash is a great idea.

I've been attempting to make the Westmalle Tripel and have an interesting pic to share from 2 versions (below). I've just bottled this recipe (http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/...rial_001xx.pdf) about 2 weeks again and can't wait to see how it came out and ages.

Of what I've tasted, 100% Belgian pilsner malt & single infusion mash has resulted in a very similar malt profile to the commercial beer. The more difficult part of this clone in my book is the hops and fermentation. I've attached a temperature/gravity log for the Tripel in the link attempting to ferment this under tight temperature control and preserve esters by getting it off the yeast followed by a month of cold conditioning.

tripel-comparison.jpg
graph.jpg

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Old 03-19-2013, 12:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSmith View Post
Please post that recipe.
I don't have it now but it was pretty close to this one below...

There were a couple differences
  1. 28 pounds of Pilsner Malt here and 25 pounds in my recipe..
  2. Slight hop differences

http://www.homebrewchef.com/Westmall...oneRecipe.html

I will have to see if I can find the other one...

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Old 03-19-2013, 10:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSmith View Post
Please post that recipe.
I got the recipe from here...

http://www.homebrewing.org/The-Best-...EW_p_1159.html

Since I went all grain I have been playing with a lot of clone recipes to try different hops and malts...

OG = 1.081
FG = 1.015
IBU = 39
SRM = 5
ABV = 8.5

12.5 lbs Pilsner malt
2.0 lbs Belgian Rock Candy or Cane Sugar

1.90 oz - Styrian Goldings 60 min
0.75 oz Tettnag 15 min
0.75 oz Saaz 5 min

Mash in at 131 and over an hour raise the temp to 148, let rest for up to an hour, and then mash out.

Boil for two (2) Hours.

NOTE: I have seen a bunch of other Clone Recipies on line over the last few days... this one uses the least amount of grain.



I might modify it a bit and add some "Aromatic Malt"...
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:53 PM   #5
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Here are a few opinions after 3 tries working to get to a beer like the Westmalle Triple. I already have ideas on what version 4 is going to be.

From an attenuation persepective, experience getting 60 gravity points (post boil) from the Belgian pilsner and the rest from sugar (cane sugar, beet sugar, clear invert sugar, not a sugar that imparts flavor) for an OG of about 1.080, mashing at 148F single infusion for 90 minutes, can result in a 1.008-1.010 beer. 1.015 seems too high. Sugar should be added at the end of the boil.

I'd skip the decoction and additions of any other malt. Belgian pilsner by itself is a great taste.

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Old 03-20-2013, 01:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSmith View Post
Here are a few opinions after 3 tries working to get to a beer like the Westmalle Triple. I already have ideas on what version 4 is going to be.

From an attenuation persepective, experience getting 60 gravity points (post boil) from the Belgian pilsner and the rest from sugar (cane sugar, beet sugar, clear invert sugar, not a sugar that imparts flavor) for an OG of about 1.080, mashing at 148F single infusion for 90 minutes, can result in a 1.008-1.010 beer. 1.015 seems too high. Sugar should be added at the end of the boil.

I'd skip the decoction and additions of any other malt. Belgian pilsner by itself is a great taste.
Thanks...

I did consider just adding some LME or DME to get a higher gravity but I have a few hundred pounds of grain I am trying to use up and I saw this as a way of doing it.

I already have poured out in to Homer Buckets six (6) other "regular" gravity beers and this would be the seventh (7th)...

Now I am just waiting for a nice day (really a bunch of days) to brew...

DPB
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPBISME View Post
Thanks...

I did consider just adding some LME or DME to get a higher gravity but I have a few hundred pounds of grain I am trying to use up and I saw this as a way of doing it.

I already have poured out in to Homer Buckets six (6) other "regular" gravity beers and this would be the seventh (7th)...

Now I am just waiting for a nice day (really a bunch of days) to brew...

DPB
I'm not advocating using LME or DME. Here's what I mean about gravity points from pilsner:

(Pilsner Weight, 14 pounds)* (Pilsner gravity contribution per pount per gallon = 37)*(Expected Mash efficiency, say 70% or 0.70)/(End of Boil Volume, 6 gallons example) = 60

(Table sugar weight, 2.75 pounds)*(Table sugar gravity contribution per pound per gallon = 46)*(1, not mashed)/(end of Boil Volume, 6 gallons example) = 21

That would make a 1.081 beer (81 gravity points), no LME or DME.

The gravity points from table sugar will be completely fermentable. The mash will determine the fermentability of the 60 gravity points from the pilsner. My experience is that a 148F single infusion mash for 90 minutes & Wyeast 3787 will attenuate those about 83%, leaving you with about a 1.010 finished beer.
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSmith View Post
I'm not advocating using LME or DME. Here's what I mean about gravity points from pilsner:

(Pilsner Weight, 14 pounds)* (Pilsner gravity contribution per pount per gallon = 37)*(Expected Mash efficiency, say 70% or 0.70)/(End of Boil Volume, 6 gallons example) = 60

(Table sugar weight, 2.75 pounds)*(Table sugar gravity contribution per pound per gallon = 46)*(1, not mashed)/(end of Boil Volume, 6 gallons example) = 21
Understood... I wil review your math later...

BUT

The whole point of this exersize was to do a single mash that started at 95 degrees and ended at 148, then on to mash-out.

I have an unheated mash-tun so I tired to calculate a step infusion but since I was going for a 13 batch I found I ended up with way to much wort.

So I came up with the Modified Decotion idea...

Mash in at a ratio of 1 to 1 pull some out and water and boil and pour back in.

I duh-know... it must be my masochistic tendencies over-riding my common sense…

Happy Brewing...
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