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Old 06-12-2008, 07:17 PM   #11
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My only other question then is how do you guys handle the displacement of the chiller? Or are you using a plate chiller or counterflow where there is no affect on your volume readings?

Maybe I'm over complicating things. Next brew I'm going to put the chiller in a hot star san solution and just let it sit until I am done boiling or try lifting it out of the boil pot.

The boil is my only variable that I haven't nailed down. I am getting pretty consistent efficiency out of my electric RIMS system and I have a new burner that can boil 10 gallons much better.

Thanks for the feedback

Linc
Yes, you might be overcomplicating things a little bit...

I sanitize my immersion chiller with starsan a minute or two before I need to use it. There is no need to heat your starsan solution or let your chiller sit in starsan for a long time (see this thread). Starsan works with a 2 minute contact time, that's all you need.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:18 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by missing link View Post
My only other question then is how do you guys handle the displacement of the chiller? Or are you using a plate chiller or counterflow where there is no affect on your volume readings?

Maybe I'm over complicating things. Next brew I'm going to put the chiller in a hot star san solution and just let it sit until I am done boiling or try lifting it out of the boil pot.

The boil is my only variable that I haven't nailed down. I am getting pretty consistent efficiency out of my electric RIMS system and I have a new burner that can boil 10 gallons much better.

Thanks for the feedback

Linc

Try this instead. Fill your kettle with 2 gallons of water and boil it full tilt for an hour. Measure whats left. Sure the sugars will effect boil of to some degree but, on the other hand, humidity will have a more profound effect.

There you have it. You can real world test the boil off and no chillers have to be involved.

Easy Peasy.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:31 PM   #13
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I don't measure post-boil until it's in the fermenter. I'm not going to change how long I boil based on the volume that's remaining, b/c that would mess up the hop schedule. I fthe volume is too high, not much I can do. If it's too low, I can top up in the fermenter (or not) just as easily as in the kettle.

It helps that my boil-off is pretty predictable and repeatable at 1 gal/hr, but I'm not sure what I'd do if I had a post-boil measurement that was "off" in the kettle anyway.

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Old 06-12-2008, 08:24 PM   #14
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Even if you want to sanitize you IC in the chiller, you do not have to boil it for 15 minutes. That's overkill upon overkill. If you dropped it in right after cutting the fire and give it a few moments or a minute, that's good enough. The bugs you are worried about aren't that tough.

And, I just use a calibrated plastic spoon for my volume measurements. My boiloff is right around 1.5 gallons/hr.


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Old 06-13-2008, 05:58 PM   #15
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I just measure my volume with my mash rake that I have premarked right before I put the IC in the kettle, 10 min. of boil will be of little significance at this stage, I end up almost dead on in the fermenter, hope this helps

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Old 06-13-2008, 06:08 PM   #16
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I don't measure post-boil until it's in the fermenter. I'm not going to change how long I boil based on the volume that's remaining, b/c that would mess up the hop schedule. I fthe volume is too high, not much I can do. If it's too low, I can top up in the fermenter (or not) just as easily as in the kettle.

It helps that my boil-off is pretty predictable and repeatable at 1 gal/hr, but I'm not sure what I'd do if I had a post-boil measurement that was "off" in the kettle anyway.
In this case, you miss out on correcting some variables. How do you know how much is left in the boil pot?

My goal is to get the right volume pre-boil at the right gravity, boil off the right amount and get the correct post gravity at the correct volume.

So if I need 7.5 gallons at 1.042 pre-boil and I boil for an hour, I want to breally close to 6 gallons at 1.052.

A few of my past brews, I have hit my pre-boil gravity and volume, but totally missed my post boil gravity by as much as 10 points and I had more wort than I could fit in the bucket I just don't know how much more.

I'm going to try adding my spritzed with star san IC after the boil is done and measured.

Here is another question. What is more improtant then - is it boiling for exactly 60 minutes and getting the proper hop utilization or is hitting your OG more important?

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Old 06-13-2008, 06:33 PM   #17
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Instead, I monitor gravity with my refractometer and I boil until I either hit a 60 minute minimum or I keep going til I get to my target gravity.

If you boild longer than 60 minutes just to get correct gravity, aren't you throwing off your hop additions? i.e. creating higher IBU?
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Old 06-13-2008, 06:38 PM   #18
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In this case, you miss out on correcting some variables.
I measure gravity and volume preboil. There's no variable I can correct in the kettle at the end of the boil that can't be corrected either preboil, or in the fermenter.

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How do you know how much is left in the boil pot?
I know what I started with, and my boil-off is very predictable. Even if it weren't, I don't care. Again, if it's too little, I can top up in the fermenter. If it's too much, there's nothing I can do...more boiling kills the hop schedule.

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My goal is to get the right volume pre-boil at the right gravity, boil off the right amount and get the correct post gravity at the correct volume.
Mine too.

Quote:
So if I need 7.5 gallons at 1.042 pre-boil and I boil for an hour, I want to breally close to 6 gallons at 1.052.

A few of my past brews, I have hit my pre-boil gravity and volume, but totally missed my post boil gravity by as much as 10 points and I had more wort than I could fit in the bucket.
Not sure how this is possible, at least based on the example you gave above. You're starting with 7.5 gallons at 1.042, shooting for 1.052, and ending up around 1.042 (10 points off)?

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I just don't know how much more.
To me, this is the core of your problem. If you don't know how much you have post-boil, then you don't know you're boiloff rate and you can't adjust for future batches.

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I'm going to try adding my spritzed with star san IC after the boil is done and measured.
If you're ending up with too much wort to fit in your fermenter, then whether or not you're measuring with/without the IC is irrelevant. You're not boiling long enough.

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Here is another question. What is more improtant then - is it boiling for exactly 60 minutes and getting the proper hop utilization or is hitting your OG more important?
Both. It's knowing how long you need to boil to hit your target OG and fermenter volume, and using a hop schedule that fits that boil time and your desired IBUs/flavor/aroma additions. All my hop schedules start at 60 min, but my boil time may need to be longer than that to get the right volume/OG. The extra boiling has to take place before the hops are added..which means you need to be able to accurately predict the length of your boil...which means you need to know your boiloff rate.
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Old 06-13-2008, 06:50 PM   #19
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If you boild longer than 60 minutes just to get correct gravity, aren't you throwing off your hop additions? i.e. creating higher IBU?
Never tested it and have yet to taste a problem with it.

Maybe, I am not convince yet that an extended boil increases isomerization efficiency. Sure I have read about it, I am just not convince it's that pronounced. I mean, after 60 minutes at 212*F I think I have extracted and isomerized just about everything I can. Not scientific fact but a perceived opinion.

On the flip side of this equation tho', if I bittered for say 1.080 OG and my mash result was say 1.070 then I'd expect that if I didn't concentrate the sugars I would be too bitter to begin with and the act of concentrating the sugar would further balance the wort, would'nt you say? as to when I actually add the hops for bittering, meh.

Kinda like FWH. Tests show that the method has a 10% (or somethinh like that) increase in extraction efficiency but taste panels describe a smoother bitterness but no perceived increase in bittering.
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:03 PM   #20
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To see how much the IC displaces the water in the kettle, fill the kettle with 5g cold water, add the immersion chiller, and then re-measure.
I always start the boil with 6.75g water, and boil for 75 minutes. I end up (after evaporation, hop absorption, dead space etc.) with 5.25g give or take a pint.
I have promash set up with an evaporation rate of 15g/hour. Just goes to show how much I use the water usage calculators.

-a.

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