Mastering Cloning - Page 2

Willie3 · 07-12-2006, 08:25 PM

I think that even production of mass quantities of alcoholic malt beverages has different flavors in different batches. It is impossible to "clone" any beer no matter where it comes from. Even trying to brew the same batch of Pale Ale in your home will come out different everytime.

If variety is the spice of life then homebrew must be life's blood.

- WW "Monk Apprentice"

Cheesefood · 07-12-2006, 08:28 PM

Agree with Darth.

Most places would probably even toss you the recipe, if it's not their "guarded one". You're not in competition with them so why do they care if you try to make their beer? Besides, everyone knows that it's the yeast that gives it the most unique flavors.

tallybrewer · 12-06-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indiana Red

....I have done one for Bell's Expedition Stout that I am happy with and though it is by no means exact, I can tell many similarities and am pretty happy with it. ...

Mind posting your recipe for the Bell's Expedition Stout? If it is not extract, I'll try to convert it. Searched for it here, but haven't found one...

Thanks!

jgln · 12-06-2010, 03:24 PM

I have never tried to clone anything in particular and never thought of how I would go about it until now. One thing I might do is pay close attention to recopies either here or the ones you would buy as a kit. Look at the ingredients of each for the beer to be made and then think of the characteristics of that beer then ask yourself if that beer is similar to what you want to clone. After that you may have to nail down what makes one special from the other (orange peel, spice, whatever) to get it more exact.

So aside from experimenting and experience that is how I would probably go. Just a thought.

ILuvIPA · 12-08-2010, 10:22 PM

hey Digdan, here's my 2 cents and my method. Before you start cloning you have to have a sufficient grip on process/technique that you can brew the same recipe with identical result. Once you can do that you should be able to develop a clone recipe. Here's my suggested process:

1) Don't just read "Designing Great Beers"/Daniels. . .You have to study the book. He's teaching a recipe formulation method and also provides style data bases that guide you to the most common ingredients for that style. Understand it at that level.

2) Check the brewery website to see what info they give (abv, ibu, hops, etc) Make detailed notes. Compare to the Daniels book.

3) Google for clone recipes for the beer you're trying to clone. Keep your wits here because you'll find some make sense and some are ridiculous (malt/hop selections.) A lot of guys say they are on a clone quest but really they are just making random beer.

4) Use a brewing software to generate your first attempt and hit the ibu, color, abv, etc. given by the brewer. Use grain/hops from "clone" recipes on-line that make sense based on what the brewery publishes about the beer.

5) Brew your target recipe and 6 weeks later do a side-by-side tasting. Pour a glass of each and make detailed tasting notes. How does your brew differ? Now pull out all your reference books and look at grain, hops, balance. Tweak your recipe in your choosen software to make corrections to taste, aroma, balance.

6) Brew it again and repeat the side-by-side in another 6 weeks. Each attempt should take you closer. If not, put cloning on hold and re-read Palmers "How to Brew." Just my opinion but before you try to start cloning you should be able to brew a recipe 3 times and have it come out identical each time. If not you don't yet have a grip on process &/or technique.

It's demanding, takes some real study. You can't just casually approach. You need a methodical approach. Ok, hope this doesn't sound like a rant - just trying to help. I strongly believe in the above steps.

newb brewer/cloner out

**TANSTAAFB** · 12-09-2010, 01:09 AM

+ 1 ILuvIPA, on all counts!!!

Ray's Book is awesome and you can keep going back for more...as you gain experience what he says makes more sense. He is trying to convey a lot of info--some technical, some common sense, some great lore and history--that all have a place in the process.

Many of the larger HBS's like Northern Brewer and Austin Homebrew Supply have great clone kits in extract and PM, some AG. Buy one you like that clones a commercial you can get your hands on, brew it, and compare. That will give you a great starting point.

Clone Brews is another fantastic resource dedicated to the art of cloning that has a bunch of recipes. Brew Your Own and Zymurgy magazines always publish clone recipes. This forum has TONS of clone recipes AND feedback regarding how they turn out from the original brewer and all the people who tried THEIR hand at it.

Try some SMASH brews (single malt and single hop) to get a handle on what flavor profiles different malts and hops contribute so you can recognize them in the beers you drink.

Finally, join a Homebrew club with experienced brewers who can help you on your cloning quest.

Have fun and brew often!!!

**Yooper** · 12-09-2010, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tallybrewer

Mind posting your recipe for the Bell's Expedition Stout? If it is not extract, I'll try to convert it. Searched for it here, but haven't found one...

Thanks!

His post was well over four years ago- I don't think you'll get much response from him!