Mash and Sparge water volumes - Papazian vs HBT

aeonderdonk · 07-10-2009, 07:43 PM

I am going to be attempting my first all grain batch in just over a week and I have been reading up as much as possible.

I noticed that many people here have different opinions on mash and sparge water volumes that differ from the guidelines Papazian lays out in his book.

He suggests 1 quart water per lb of grain for mash and 0.5 gallon water per lb of grain for sparge.

From my readings here it seems like people lean towards 1.25 quart per lb for mash and differing volumed for sparge.

What are the pros/cons/affects of larger volumes of mash water per lb?

s1080 · 07-10-2009, 08:40 PM

Generally, larger amounts of mash/sparge water and depending on how man times you sparge means a higher degree of efficiency but sometimes thats not always the case. Ill explain through one of my experiences.

When I first started AG I would use the standard 1.5 qt per lb ratio and go from there. So for example in a recipe calling for 11 lbs of grain I would mash with about 4 gallons of water. Accomodating for the water lost to the grain, about a gallon(this is a guess), that means I would collect 3 gallons of wort and so I would sparge with 3 gallons of water to get a total of 6 gallons of wort. Doing this method I routinely came up with low to high 60% efficiency.

After a couple of brews now I have changed my ways. For the same amount of grain (which is the amount of grain I used for my pale ale just a couple days ago) I didnt really follow any particular method but I guess it would closer to the big P's method. I mashed with 2.5 gallons of water, which I guess is pretty close to the 1 qt per gallon idea, and then sparged twice with 2.5 gallons. The result was a 6.5 gal collection at 83% eff.

To get to your orginal question. Pros of using large amounts of water with more then 1 sparge is a higher effciency (generally). The cons, in the begginning you may do a miss calc and find youve gotten way more wort then necessary and spend the rest of the day/night boiling it down to the wanted volume (been there done that got the t shirt). the following link may be helpful. Cheers

Image:Batch sparging grain weight.gif - Home Brewing Wiki

**Bobby_M** · 07-10-2009, 08:48 PM

I think we widely agree that 1qt/lb mash is pretty darn thick unless it is the first infusion of a multi-step mash. Something around 1.25 to 1.75 is easier to stir. The problem with quoting some fixed sparge ratio is that it doesn't guarantee a workable preboil volume. The typical starting point is 6.5 gallons preboil for a 60min boil. Sparge whatever it takes to reach it after you've measured your first runnings. Those runnings will likely be your infused strike volume minus .125 gallons per pound of grain lost to absorption.

Bru · 07-13-2009, 11:09 AM

aeonderdonk - I hope you don't mind me sharing your thread.
Can someone please convert these measurements to metric.
I estimate 2L of water per 1kg kg of grain for the mash and 3L water per 1kg for sparging - is this correct ?
Is the goal to end up with the final amount of wort plus +-10% for evaporation during the boil ?
Is it possible to aim for a smaller volume of wort and then add ice or ice water for cooling after the boil ?

s1080 · 07-13-2009, 11:53 AM

1 lb = 2.20 kg
1 L = 0.26 gal

so, if you have 11 lbs of grain that is actually 24.2 kg which means you would use 48.4 L for your sparge (according to your estimates) which is 12 gallons of water. I think you should go with 1/2 L per kg because this would bring you to 12.1 L which is around 3 gallons. For sparging youll want a little bit more assuming 1 gal or 4 L is lost due to grain absorption (could be more or less). So instead of using 3L per Kg which would give you way to much water I would use 3/4 L per KG which would mean your sparging with 18 L to get 4.5 gal and you would end up with roughly 26L.

11lbs x 2.20 = 24.2 kg
1/2L per kg = 12.1 L - 4(due to grain absorbtion)= 8L
3/4 x 24.2 kg = 18.15L 8L + 18.15 L = 26.15L of wort or 6.5 gal

Quote:

Is the goal to end up with the final amount of wort plus +-10% for evaporation during the boil

I normally lose a 4L an hour while boiling so if the goal is 5.5 gal or 22L of finished wort then you initially want 6.5 gal or 26L

Quote:

Is it possible to aim for a smaller volume of wort and then add ice or ice water for cooling after the boil ?

I would def not do this. Adding water will dilute your beer making a watery beer (depending on the type and og). Try getting a wort chiller or an ice bath if your trying to bring the temp down quickly.

Bru · 07-13-2009, 12:10 PM

s1080 - thanks - your replies make sense. Except that 1 pound is 0.45kg

Not to worry though - I can make the adjustment.

s1080 · 07-13-2009, 02:32 PM

lol..wow..my B

I was looking at kg to pounds...woops