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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Mash pH reading
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:07 PM   #11
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Has anyone checked ph at 1-2 minutes then rechecked at 15-30 minutes? It doesn't make sense to check it at 15-30 minutes when most conversion is finished by then. I set mine after dough in and thorough stir. Sounds like an experiment coming up on my next brew day, but that won't be for a month or so.

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Old 01-17-2014, 01:35 PM   #12
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RM-NM; full conversion in two minutes? I know I should pm you but I would like to hear more in this.
I have my grain milled very fine, like coarse cornmeal which works fine with BIAB. I believe my mash temp was 152 for that batch and I stirred the grains in well. I took a sample immediately after stirring in the grains and tested for starch with a drop of wort and a drop of iodine and of course it turned dark blue. I took the second sample at 2 minutes and tested again with the iodine and there was no change in color. I let the mash continue for a total of 30 minutes and then pulled the bag out and started heating the wort.

When I was ready to bottle I checked the gravity and found that it had gone far below the 1.014 I was expecting and seemed to stop at 1.004. The beer doesn't seem to have starch haze and it shouldn't have finished that low if only the alpha amylase had had time to work. I've read that beta amylase takes longer to act but I haven't seen where the time is listed.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:41 PM   #13
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Interesting. I really need to crush finer as mine is stock but I'm BIAB. I think it's actually the alpha that takes longer to convert. If I remember correctly I thought of beta as big bites, quick but it miss a lot that ends up raising the FG. Ultra dry beers takes longer to convert. In other words your mash really kicked a$$ as it was pretty low temp mash and converted quick.

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Old 01-17-2014, 05:16 PM   #14
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Has anyone checked ph at 1-2 minutes then rechecked at 15-30 minutes? It doesn't make sense to check it at 15-30 minutes when most conversion is finished by then. I set mine after dough in and thorough stir. Sounds like an experiment coming up on my next brew day, but that won't be for a month or so.
I've checked it at 5min and 15min, and there has been a change in that time.

I always either do an acid rest or a protein rest so I can make sure the pH is correct before I raise to the saccharification rest.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:31 AM   #15
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I did my experiment today. pH after dough in (1 minute) was 5.1. I rechecked at 20, 40, 60 and ALL were 5.0 to 5.1. Debate can now be settled, as it does not change. And I still stand by my theory of why would you check and set it halfway through a mash after most of your conversion in complete?

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Old 02-02-2014, 05:31 PM   #16
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And I still stand by my theory of why would you check and set it halfway through a mash after most of your conversion in complete?

Because if the pH is off by enough, conversion isn't happening as the enzymes aren't functioning
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:41 PM   #17
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And I still stand by my theory of why would you check and set it halfway through a mash after most of your conversion in complete?
So that I'll know better the next time.
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:08 AM   #18
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Some brewing methods use a rest to stabilize pH before going to conversion temps. It is not advisable to start mashing above pH 6 or below 4.7. Different malt types will stick at a certain pH if Phytase hasn't been inverted during the kilning process. If the malt does contain Phytase, it becomes denatured at the higher temps used for conversion. Distilled water is used to determine pH of various malt. To say that pH remains the same throughout the process isn't necessarily, true. It depends on the kilning process of the malt and brewing water profile. Beta and alpha have optimum pH ranges where they do their best, so does yeast. Outside of their pH range they become sluggish, resulting in conversion taking a long time. Ale yeast requires a different pH than Lager yeast. If conversion doesn't take place in 20-30 minutes the mash is too thick or pH is out of whack. Enzymes start to denature with time and temperature. Beta denatures under an hour at 149F. Alpha takes less than two hours at the same temp. Making over night mashing mostly useless, except for saturating grain. Mash thickness plays a part in conversion and with attenuation. A pH of 5 may be hunky dory to a brewer but maybe not to other things taking place during mashing phase. Conversion can begin at 130F, even though the mash isn't at the temp for gelatinizing starch. Beta is active breaking up dextrin at low temps. In certain types of malt, Maltase and Dextrinase are not completely kilned off. They are debranching enzymes that make beta and alpha work better. Alpha, basically liquifies starch and breaks up amylose and amylopectin, forming carbs. It releases certain sugars, and a thing called a-limit dextrins. Beta only works on the non reducing end of the stewed up starch chain, creating sugar and b-limit dextrines. Alpha chops up the chain at certain points, creating more non reducing ends. Debranching enzymes create more non reducing ends. The more non reducing ends, the faster beta works.

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