Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Mash Out with Single Sparge vs. No Mash Out with Double Sparge
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-19-2013, 04:59 AM   #1
jeffdill
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 138
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default Mash Out with Single Sparge vs. No Mash Out with Double Sparge

I have a recipe for a porter with 14.25 lbs grain. I'm mashing 4.25 gallons water at 152 degrees for an hour. I'm going to lose about 1.75 gallons to grain absorption, and I want 6.5 gallons in the kettle.

Which scenario gives me better efficiency:

1. Add 1.75 gal boiling water (calculated) to raise mash temp to 168 degrees. Let it sit 10 min, then vorlauf. Do a single sparge of 2.25 gallons.

2. No mash out, two separate sparges of 2 gallons each.

Cheers

__________________
jeffdill is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2013, 05:09 AM   #2
Dynachrome
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Americas Hinterland, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,897
Liked 59 Times on 53 Posts
Likes Given: 469

Default

I do a double sparge. I let it rest for about ten minutes before draining. It makes me happy.

I have no idea of the efficiency though.


Also, check out the threads appearing at the bottom of the page.

__________________
I drink therefore I am.
Dynachrome is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2013, 05:11 AM   #3
Bamsdealer
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Collegeville, Pa
Posts: 832
Liked 36 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

You may end up with a slightly more or less fermentable wort with no mashout as the alpha-amylase will continue to work after a 60 minute mash. Mashing out will lock in the beer profile by denaturing both the beta and alpha amylase chains. Supposedly mashing out will make the wort less viscous and you may get slightly more sugars that drain off the grain. I'd be surprised if this gets you more than a point or two in efficiency though.

__________________
Bamsdealer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2013, 05:14 AM   #4
Bamsdealer
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Collegeville, Pa
Posts: 832
Liked 36 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

you can do a double sparge with a mashout. Mashout with boiling water as you would in scenario 1 then the second sparge should be with 168-170 degree water.

__________________
Bamsdealer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2013, 02:04 PM   #5
billl
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,971
Liked 282 Times on 238 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

You'll get a bunch of a opinions on this, but it really depends on some key variables.

If you are getting 100% conversion in the mash, then you'll hit a higher efficiency with the double batch sparge and no mashout. If you aren't getting full conversion, then a mashout will give you an extra 10 minutes of conversion time at a higher (faster acting) temp. That will up your efficiency but also decrease the fermentability of the wort.

__________________
billl is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2013, 03:15 PM   #6
jeffdill
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 138
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

So to be clear then..

If I don't do a mash out, then the first sparge water needs to be hot enough to raise the temp of the mash to 168, correct? Do I need to be exact or does it just have to get somewhere above 168?

I'm trying to figure out what temperature the first sparge water should be.

__________________
jeffdill is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2013, 04:25 PM   #7
Bamsdealer
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Collegeville, Pa
Posts: 832
Liked 36 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Go to tastybrew.com. They have a bunch of calculators and sparge is one of them. You dont want the grain bed to get much over 170 as youll risk extracting tannins. 168 is a ballpark number

__________________
Bamsdealer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2013, 05:58 PM   #8
Bamsdealer
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Collegeville, Pa
Posts: 832
Liked 36 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Go to tastybrew.com. They have a bunch of calculators and sparge is one of them. You dont want the grain bed to get much over 170 as youll risk extracting tannins. 168 is a ballpark number

__________________
Bamsdealer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-20-2013, 12:00 AM   #9
billl
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,971
Liked 282 Times on 238 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Your sparge doesn't need to be exactly the right temp. You'll gain a little extra sugar if you get closer to 170, but sugar dissolves almost as well in 152 water as 168, so don't worry too much about it. Any of the calculators will get you in the right ballpark.

The risk of "tannins" in a batch sparge is pretty much zero. Unless your water is really, really basic, the grains will pull the PH down low enough that tannins are a non-issue.

__________________
billl is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-24-2013, 06:29 AM   #10
Scotty_g
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Scotty_g's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: De Pere, WI
Posts: 345
Liked 9 Times on 9 Posts

Default

I've been working the efficiency of my AG brews up to the point where I'm happy: I get a better crush at the LHBS than my preferred online vendor; I have to be patient *and* tip the mash tun when draining (give it 10 minutes longer than I want, usually), stir the stuffing out of the mash to get the temperature even, and make sure I mash it out hot enough (168-170). On the first few batches the mash out water was too cool/too small, and draining at 162 didn't work near as well.

I normally mash in at about 1.3 qt/lb and mash out at a total of 2 qt/lb +/- 0.1. The 0.65-0.7 qt/lb of mash out is the right volume to go in at boiling and bring the whole mash to 170 F. Again, that goes in while stirring to make sure nothing over heats and pulls tannins.

__________________

Natural 20 Brewery

Yes, that *is* beer. Water, malt, hops, and yeast mean it's beer. Go ahead and try a glass...

Scotty_g is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Single infusion mash and sparge temp jvend All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 11-13-2012 06:01 AM
Single Sparge or Double Sparge question... HighlandRanger All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 10-08-2012 02:32 PM
Single infusion VS mash and sparge william_shakes_beer All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 1 07-17-2012 09:19 PM
Batch Sparge, Pilsner malt, and Single Infusion Mash HappyHeadBrew All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 3 05-13-2011 01:27 AM
Double Batch Sparge Partial Mash? IndyPABrewGuy General Techniques 2 03-15-2008 07:48 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS