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Old 12-11-2005, 05:47 AM   #11
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What's next? Dry malting?



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Old 12-11-2005, 07:15 AM   #12
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Actually it was an very Old technique that was displaced due to the economic reasons, etc.



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Old 12-11-2005, 07:15 AM   #13
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I think I've read somewhere, I think in Designing Grear Beers by Ray Daniels that in some styles of beer, including weizen, hops were added to aid in lautering, but also that the wort was never really boiled. They would do several decoction steps that would bring the temp up, but the entire wort never came to a real boil. Hops in the mash would then make sence. But to boil after seems a waste to me I'll keep my aroma hops late in the boil, and lots of em

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Old 12-12-2005, 09:20 PM   #14
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Well I tried it. I did basically step infusion mash. Added hops at dough in, let sit for a bit then added water that brought it up to 140, then 150, then 158 (by accident. Had company over and screwed up on my strike water temp.)

I think it has to do with PH levels preboil and lower temperatures in order for the molecular bindings to take place. Also some finer hop material (pellets) made it through the screen, as I expected and I think this is where some people notice some isomorization in the boil.

I used 2oz each of tett, haller, and saaz as mash hops. Then .75 oz each for 60 min and no other hops (well except for 1 hop pellet each at last 15 for good luck)

The wort did not taste any more bitter than I expected and there was hop flavor. Hard to tell with sweet wort but I think this will turn out well. When it's done fermenting I'll see how the aroma/flavor seems and if necessary I'll dry hop.

I think this works better with step infusion or at least holding the hops/grains at lower temps for a while before raising to starch conversion temps.

I would like to see the methods of mashing used by those than swear by mash hopping and those who have had negative results.

At least with mashing there is a lot of info on the science of how and why it works. haven't found anything definitive yet on mash hopping.

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Old 12-13-2005, 03:42 AM   #15
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I haven't been thrilled with the results-I've added them to an infusion mash.

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Old 01-21-2011, 11:16 AM   #16
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I realize this is a very old post, but does anyone else have additional data about mash hopping (especially about the actual results)? Taste better? Smoother? No discernible difference?

I plan to try mash hopping and first wort hopping in a couple of IPAs I have planned, but I'm especially curious about mash hopping. I know FWH approximates a 20 minute addition -- and I tried it in my last IPA with (what appeared to me, at least) some success in terms of smoothing out the overall bitterness but not diminishing any of the hop flavor. In fact, my FWH'd IPA turned out much hoppier -- and better, IMHO -- than a nearly identical recipe I made several weeks later without FWH. Obviously, there are a lot of variables here -- so this doesn't particularly mean anything significant.

Anyway -- I'm curious about mash hopping...

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Old 01-23-2011, 12:02 AM   #17
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I am very happy you revised this thread. I would also like an update. I have first wort hopped, and found it to be very worthwhile, but not mash hopped. I am thinking of playing with the DFH60 clone recipe from byo 150 clones. I have made this and it is tasty.

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Old 01-24-2011, 01:58 PM   #18
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I have tried this a few times and never been blown away by it. I consider it a waste of hops. All of my standard wort hopped and dry hopped beers have been far better than any of my FWH or mash hopped experiments.

I have not done a side by side of the same beer like you have though. So there are plenty of variables that could be off on my results.

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Old 03-31-2011, 02:22 AM   #19
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It's very clear that some people on this forum refuse to even consider the possibility that mash hopping may change the flavor profile of a finished beer. However, a quick look at some of the published research shows that malt carbohydrates form complexes with xanthohumol and isoxanthohumol (see link below). I haven't been able to find definitive research on whether these carbohydrate complexes could form during the mash, but it seems possible. You can make a bitter hop tea at temperatures below boiling (158 or so...). In the hypothetical mash hopping, some of the flavoring components from the hops are released to the solution at the same time that long-chain carbohydrates are being released from the malt. If the complexes of malt carbs and hop flavonoids form during this time, it may be possible that they can survive the boil and end up in your beer, depending on the strength of the complex. A topic worthy of research, at least, and not immediately damnable, as it has been on this discussion board. Think it doesn't work? Prove it with research!

Fate of Xanthohumol and Related Prenylflavonoids from Hops to Beer
Jan F. Stevens,*† Alan W. Taylor,† Jeff E. Clawson,‡ and Max L. Deinzer†
Departments of Chemistry and Food Science and Technology, Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon 97331 J. Agric. Food Chem., 1999, 47 (6), pp 2421–2428
link: http://bit.ly/eDGRzL

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Old 03-31-2011, 03:08 AM   #20
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I could see this being a great in some beers. but a stout or an IPA or any other beer style that is highly hopped it would be a waste of hops. Just like FWH works great in styles that are not highly hopped.



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