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BamaRooster · 10-08-2012, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markowe

Just to point out you don't have to post to do that - there is a Subscribe option under Thread tools. Anyway, hopefully I can share something useful once I have done some experiments.

And BINGO....I learned something

mattd2 · 10-08-2012, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markowe

Saw that program but must have missed that bit...

Yeah it was the bit where all the tractors a lined up at the gates, and as each one pulls in they take a sample and the have to wait for the results. If it comes back good they dump their barley and get a paycheck, if it is not good they are turned away and sell it as animal feed for a much lower price.

**wilserbrewer** · 10-08-2012, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by wilserbrewer
Just spitballing ideas here, would it be possible to not malt the barley, but add enzymes seperately during the mash thereby eliminating the chore of malting?

amylase enzyme...$10 / lb ???
http://www.perfectbrewingsupply.com/products/Amylase-Enzyme-%252d-1-lb..html

Quote:

Originally Posted by markowe

Well, that's way out of my field of expertise - the whole reason I am planning to malt myself is because I don't have access to a lot of that specialist homebrew stuff..

But you figure with that sort of thing that more people would be doing it if it worked?

Well if people get the "farts" in Serbia, you can likely find Amylase enzyme, we have a product here called Beano. I am bringing this up because home malting barley sounds labor intensive as hell, and I for one would think about alternate methods...or start making wine, cider, or shine if I had to home malt...just my two dinar

markowe · 10-09-2012, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Well if people get the "farts" in Serbia, you can likely find Amylase enzyme, we have a product here called Beano. I am bringing this up because home malting barley sounds labor intensive as hell, and I for one would think about alternate methods...or start making wine, cider, or shine if I had to home malt...just my two dinar

He he, I bet it costs more than 2 dinars to be rid of your gaseous emissions, but I will have to look into that. Maybe someone has experience of that round here though? Mashing with enzymes instead of malting, not farting, I am sure there are all too many experts in that.

From what I have read I get the impression that enzymes are only used to IMPROVE efficiency, not to do the whole job. That would be TOO easy, surely..!

Anyway, once you get the malting process down it's not really a big deal to make small-medium batches of maybe up to 5-10kg which you can store for use in the indefinite future - even in kitchen conditions...

markowe · 10-09-2012, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattd2

Yeah it was the bit where all the tractors a lined up at the gates, and as each one pulls in they take a sample and the have to wait for the results. If it comes back good they dump their barley and get a paycheck, if it is not good they are turned away and sell it as animal feed for a much lower price.

Ohhh....! Yeah! Didn't quite make the connection! Twas an interesting program, to be sure, I was watching and thinking, wait, I UNDERSTAND what they're talking about..! Not that I have ever liked Guiness very much, but that's another matter...

markowe · 10-10-2012, 10:06 AM

Well, only one way to find out... Have done the regular soak, drain, soak, drain and after a couple of days we have some action (pic below). Haven't done a count, but the germination rate seems close to 90%, but rather uneven, like some have really bolted, and some are still just showing the chit, so not sure what's happened there and how that is going to affect things.

**Brewskii** · 10-10-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilserbrewer

Just spitballing ideas here, would it be possible to not malt the barley, but add enzymes seperately during the mash thereby eliminating the chore of malting?

amylase enzyme...$10 / lb ???
http://www.perfectbrewingsupply.com/products/Amylase-Enzyme-%252d-1-lb..html

Not gonna work because in un-malted barley the endosperm is not modified.... IOW,malting is not only about production of enzymes to convert starch to sugar, but also about breaking down the cell walls in the endosperm so that the starch is accessible to those enzymes (AKA: modification)

mattd2 · 10-10-2012, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brewskii

Not gonna work because in un-malted barley the endosperm is not modified.... IOW,malting is not only about production of enzymes to convert starch to sugar, but also about breaking down the cell walls in the endosperm so that the starch is accessible to those enzymes (AKA: modification)

Could you get around this with the mash schedule, is it the β-Glucanase rest. But again are these enzymes produced during malting and therefore if it is not malted you cannot do this rest anyway?
EDIT: Just noticed I said "mash..." instead of "malt..."

**Brewskii** · 10-10-2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattd2

Could you get around this with the mash schedule, is it the β-Glucanase rest. But again are these enzymes produced during mashing and therefore if it is not mashed you cannot do this rest anyway?

Correct. Giberellic acid is released rom the pericarp and testa which in turn causes the embryo to release the enzymes to Start breaking the cell walls down to allow the amylases to do there work.
In the kernel, these things happen synchronously but do overlap. An under modified malt has fewer amylase enzymes and more cell wall and starch. An over modified malt has many enzymes and the cell walls of the endosperm are broken up and acessable, but less starch as it is starting to be converted that late in the germination.
Generally speaking, a good balance of the two occurs when the rootlets are a little longer than the kernel.

markowe · 10-11-2012, 12:00 PM

OK, it's about the third day, and things are sprouting nicely, my acrospires are about 50% of the length of the grain on average (they need to hit 80-100%), while the roots are getting to be around the length of the grain, or some of them are already much longer, bit uneven really. As to the latter, sources vary, some say that 1x the grain length is about the right rootlet length, others say that the rootlets will be about 1.5 to 2x the length of the grain (depending on the style wished for, too) when full modification is completed. Of course, the acrospires are my main guideline, but I wonder if excessive root growth is indicative of some problem that's going to stop me getting very good modification. I have to say our nightime temperatures here are getting to 5 - 10C, which is quite a bit cooler than the recommended 15C minimum. I wonder if a low temperature can produce this effect. I may move the whole lot inside, because it's nearer 25C indoors which is still supposed to be OK, and may also produce somewhat darker malt, according to some.