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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Let's Partyyyy(gyle) that is!!!! Pumpkin Porter AND Ale from one mash!?!
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:01 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by iamjonsharp View Post
I read this the other day in Radical Brewing, and thought it would be helping when doing parti-gyle batches:

From Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher, pg 201:

"Capping. This is a simple technique traditionally employed to boost the gravity of the third, small beer runnings of a parti-gyle batch. The malt of choice was traditionally amber (biscuit), which works well. Crystal malt works very well for this purpose, as it contains sugars in a soluble form, and requires no further mashing. The 'cap' malt is crushed as normal, then either strewn on the surface or stirred into the upper layer of the mash, allowed to rest fifteen minutes, then run off. This is a good tool for manipulating the character of the smaller beer by adding dark or other colored malts. Crystal works well in this situation as it needs no further mashing and can boost the body, useful for second-running beers."
Hmmm, I just came upon that online as well....not in so much detail, but similar...there is SO little info on this style of brewing. But I appreciate everyone's help.
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:16 PM   #32
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They are the same . I just don't think in .4957 pounds so I display in pounds and ounces.

But I did the same thing you did in Beersmith.

I think you are good to go. I started reading all of this parti-gyle, and it looks like your second runnings are going to be basically a mild. I know they used to parti-gyle back in the day with first runnings a brown (before it started to transform / split off into porter) and the second runnings were a mild.

So I'd leave all of your "portery" stuff in there (not steep it), and see what happens. I'm thinking worst case scenario you can blend the two beers and you should end up with something drinkable.

I'm really thinking about trying this out (non-pumpkin). Parti-gyle sounds really complicated for a non-pro brewer like me .

What are you going to ferment these in. Do you have 3 gallon carboys?
How do you adjust Beersmith NOT to give the ".4957" increments? It's a pain, is there some way to change the defaults?

I think the second beer is going to be really really flavorful with all those grains in there...It may even be tastier than the Porter one....I may even have to later do a non pumpkin partigyle of the same recipe.

For a "non-pro" brewer you did a hellova job crunching the numbers and helping me get my head around it...

I think the hardest part of the partigyle proces is actually recipe formulation NOT the All Grain part of it...Basically instead of sparging into the same brewpot, you put it in a seperate one, then brew as is. (I am probably going to have a brew buddy help me, and actually brew one of the batches.)

I've been working on an article on all grain brewing in mr beers, which means I've basically been brewing a bunch of 2.5 gallon batches lately. I have 3- 3gallon water jugs that I've been using, as well as one little mr beer fermenter...I was going to get some 3- gallon better bottles, but they are pretty expensive, so I decided to also disprove the myth that you shouldn't use water bottles for brewing (except for <7's>) all my batches have turned out great so far.

I'm actually finding that 2.5 gallon AG brewing is pretty addicting...I'm more apt to be willing to experiment with funky recipes (like this) without thinking I'm going to be stuck with a ton of beer, and it costs a lot less than brewing 5 gallon recipes...

The drawback is that these micro batches add up...I ended up doing 4 beers for the article over the period of about 3 weeks...and I already had 4-5 gallon batches in various stages of fermentation, bottle conditioning, or drinking...So now I have beer up the wazoo!!!!
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:32 PM   #33
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How do you adjust Beersmith NOT to give the ".4957" increments? It's a pain, is there some way to change the defaults?
Yeah, in the units section of the options there is a checkbox at the bottom:

Quote:
"For English units, display grain using both pounds and ounces"
I attached the file beersmith.jpg so you can see it.

The concepts I understand, the experience is where I lack. Small brewing sounds great for testing just these kinds of things.
beersmith.jpg  
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:36 PM   #34
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Yeah, in the units section of the options there is a checkbox at the bottom:
Arrgh!!! Knowing that before would have saved me from countless hours of frustration Thanks again!!!

Doing small batches is a great way to experiment and work on your process as well as allowing you to do full volume boils on a stove...
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:53 PM   #35
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Yeah, I accidentally found it in my countless hours of frustration dealing with sparge volumes.

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Old 08-05-2008, 07:57 PM   #36
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I think the key to partigyle is just remaining flexible and be prepared to change your hop schedule on the fly after you verify your preboil gravities.

Go ahead and segregate your first runnings and sparge runnings. You can also cross-dilute to get each batch into the range you want. If you 3 gallons of 1.090 and 3 gallons of 1.040, you can easily pull off a half gallon of each and swap. You'll end up with 3g of 1.081 and 3g of 1.048.

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Old 08-05-2008, 08:04 PM   #37
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I think the key to partigyle is just remaining flexible and be prepared to change your hop schedule on the fly after you verify your preboil gravities.

Go ahead and segregate your first runnings and sparge runnings. You can also cross-dilute to get each batch into the range you want. If you 3 gallons of 1.090 and 3 gallons of 1.040, you can easily pull off a half gallon of each and swap. You'll end up with 3g of 1.081 and 3g of 1.048.
Thanks for the hint!

I still haven't even sat down to figure the hop and pumpkin additions yet...I think I fried my brain enough for one day.


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Old 08-05-2008, 08:26 PM   #38
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I think the key to partigyle is just remaining flexible and be prepared to change your hop schedule on the fly after you verify your preboil gravities.
Ahh...I didn't even think about the hops. So basically we figure out the estimated hops by creating the recipe for the estimated gravity of the beers, and if the gravities don't come out right, just adjust?

So we'll need three recipes.

1) Just the grain of the entire batch.

2) First Runnings (1st Beer) 1.0816 and hops (for hop schedule), pumpkin and spices.

3) Second Runnings (2nd Beer) 1.0554 and hops (for hop schedule), pumpkin and spices.
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Old 08-05-2008, 08:29 PM   #39
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Ahh...I didn't even think about the hops. So basically to figure out the hops, we would need to create the recipe for the gravity of the first beer, and if the gravity doesn't come out right, just adjust? Then the same for the second beer?

So we'll need three recipes.

1) Just the grain of the entire batch.

2) First Runnings (1st Beer) 1.0816 and hops (for hop schedule), pumpkin and spices.

3) Second Runnings (2nd Beer) 1.0554 and hops (for hop schedule), pumpkin and spices.
Yeah, that's about right. I'm going to look at some of the pumpkin beers on here and the rest of the webs and see what they use...For simplicity sake, the hop types will be the same for both beers, just in different quanitites, same with the amount of pumkin and spices.
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Old 08-05-2008, 08:34 PM   #40
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I've done a few parti gyles and I've had some success, but I've never gone from roasted grain to not wanting roast in the beer. I did go the other way once. I made a barley wine and then added some other grain to make a porter. I also did an imperial stout 2nd runnings that turned into a roasty brown that was kind of awesome. The way I look at the parti gyle is that it is essentially a free beer. You get what comes out and it likely won't be to style, but who cares. It is free beer.

Steeping definitely seems like your best bet for what you're looking for though. I just feel like rambling today.

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