Let's Partyyyy(gyle) that is!!!! Pumpkin Porter AND Ale from one mash!?!

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Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
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This is as of now purely conjecture....But I'm looking at the calendar, and despite the fact that it is 90 degrees out, and there are some things I want to brew now...In a scant 2 months it will be pumpkin beer time.

So if I want it, I gotta brew it...but the trouble is I don't know just WHAT kind of pumpkin beer I want come October. Will I want a pumpkin ale, or a pumpkin porter?

While I was washing dishes I was thinking about how to have the best of both worlds...A little bit o pumpkin porter and a little bit o pumpkin ale... and I know that I really don't want to have 5 gallons of each taking up space in my little loft...

So the question begs, just how do come up with a case of each, yet not have to dedicate 2 stovetop AG brewing sessions to achieving this.

The idea of doing it as a partyguile comes to mind....Mashing a batch of really strong porter...Draining off the first 3 or 3.5 gallon runnings as a 2.5 gallon batch of pumpkin porter...then sparging, and letting the second runnings be an very complex amber ale.

Of course to do this, the pumpkin would go in with the grain....

Now I haven't run any numbers yet, or even put any recipes together, but historically a Stout or Porter was the first running and then the brewer would pull off two more batches out of the mash, with the third one being a "table beer" that even kids would drink...So, except for the pumpkin and spices this really isn't something new..

The biggest drawback I can see, besides totally screwing everything up, is that even weaker, the flavor grainbill of the porter would still overpower the amber ale...but I could be wrong.

One option I thought of would be to work in some xldme into the amber, not so much as to raise the abv, but to hopefully mellow out some of the roastiness from the grains...

Another option that occurred to me would be to mash for an amber ale (if I use my haus amber as a base it would simply be 2-row and crystal 60) then for the FIRST runnings simply steep whatever darker/more roasty grains I would want into that for the porter.

That way the second beer, the amber, would be "clean," would just be 2-row, crystal 60, pumpkin, spices and hops...

I'm figuring I'd need a pretty high amount of pumpkin to stand up in the porter, and yet not disappear come time for the amber. Obviously I could always add more to the boil for both beers...

So any practical insight, ideas, recipes, advice, or dissuasion from you who have experience in both partyguile and pumpkin ales...

I'm not to far off the deep end, am I?:drunk:

:mug:

Edit, 2011

I though you should see the recipe, if you stumble upon the thread. I just discovered a 3 year old bottle and it is frekin amazing.

Partigyle Base

Est Original Gravity: 1.068 SG

Amount Item Type % or IBU
11 lbs oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.97 %
1 lbs 8 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
1 lbs 8 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %

Pumpkin Porter
(First Runnings)

Calculated as 60% of the original grainbill

2.5 gallon batch

(equivalent to)

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5 lbs 6.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.97 %
11.8 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
11.8 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
3.9 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
3.9 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
3.9 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %

(Hops)
0.75 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.4 IBU
0.25 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.2 IBU

(Pumpkin/Spices)
0.25 tsp Ground Allspice (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Ginger (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Ground Cinnamon (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
3.75 lb Canned Pumpkin (Boil 15.0 min) Misc

Est Original Gravity: 1.081 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.90 %
Bitterness: 24.6 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 30.1 SRM

Pumpkin "Amber Ale"
(Second Runnings)

Calculated as 40% of Grainbill

2.5 Gallons

(Equivalent to)

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4 lbs 4.4 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 85.06 %
4.0 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 4.98 %
4.0 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.98 %
1.3 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 1.66 %
1.3 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 1.66 %
1.3 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.66 %

(Hops)
0.61 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.4 IBU
0.20 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.2 IBU

(Pumpkin Spices Not Calculated Yet)
0.25 tsp Ground Allspice (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Ginger (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Ground Cinnamon (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
3.75 lb Canned Pumpkin (Boil 15.0 min) Misc

Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.21 %
Bitterness: 24.6 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 15.0 SRM
 
You might have to do this the other way around, but you could mash without the roasted grains first, get your ale, and then add roasted grains to your mash tun when you batch in for the second runnings. Granted, then your dark beer would be of lower gravity than your lighter colored beer, but you can always fix that by adding *ME or by sparging a lot and boiling it down for long time.
 
You might have to do this the other way around, but you could mash without the roasted grains first, get your ale, and then add roasted grains to your mash tun when you batch in for the second runnings. Granted, then your dark beer would be of lower gravity than your lighter colored beer, but you can always fix that by adding *ME or by sparging a lot and boiling it down for long time.

Hmmm...

If I did that, and had the mash tun open to add the grains, then conceivably couldn't I also add a few more pounds of 2-row alongside the roasted grains to bump up the gravity?

And how the heck would I figure out how much more base malt to add?...Would there be some way to calculate how much the next runnings (say another 3.5 gallons in the sparge) would be based on the preboil gravity of the first runnings? Or would I add my second batch of water, then my roasted grains and maybe take a reading from the vorloff?
 
The trouble with having brilliant "ideas" that I need help with on a Suday afternoon i that there are very few of the more experienced brewers on, and the thread sinks like a stone come Monday morning.


*Shameless thread bumping action.* :D
 
Never done this, but theoretically what do you think?

How about this make a high gravity light ale with some crystal 60, and steep some dark chocolate malt in the first runnings. Get a grain bag and toss it in the pot and just drain your 3 gallons of wort right on top of it. If you are sparging at 10 minutes per gallon, the grain will get 30 minutes of steeping time. Additionally, if you don't mash out the enzymes will still be active and help convert some of your steeping grain.

Then do your mash out and your second runnings and make your pumpkin ale.
 
Never done this, but theoretically what do you think?

How about this make a high gravity light ale with some crystal 60, and steep some dark chocolate malt in the first runnings. Get a grain bag and toss it in the pot and just drain your 3 gallons of wort right on top of it. If you are sparging at 10 minutes per gallon, the grain will get 30 minutes of steeping time. Additionally, if you don't mash out the enzymes will still be active and help convert some of your steeping grain.

Then do your mash out and your second runnings and make your pumpkin ale.

That's kinda of what I'm thinking. Is there anyway I can calculate this using beersmith?
 
That's kinda of what I'm thinking. Is there anyway I can calculate this using beersmith?

I wish beersmith would calculate this out, but it just doesn't yet. When I did a parti-gyle I entered one recipe that was the base so I could figure out temps and volumes, then I duped the recipe to each of the specific beers. I never really messed with the grain amounts in the beer specific recipes so all my calculations are off, I just wanted a place to keep track of my hop schedule.

I assumed my efficiency would be terrible, but it worked out to be about 75% and I ended up with about a gallon and a half of extra wort. Next time I hope I'll be able to better predict.

Perhaps my numbers will help you figure out yours.

32.75lbs of grain (30lbs base, 2.75lbs specialty)
9 gallons collected in first runnings with SG of 1.091 (OG 1.109 @ 6 gal)
7 gallons collected in second running with SG of 1.035 (OG 1.043 @ 5.75 gal)
 
I wish beersmith would calculate this out, but it just doesn't yet. When I did a parti-gyle I entered one recipe that was the base so I could figure out temps and volumes, then I duped the recipe to each of the specific beers. I never really messed with the grain amounts in the beer specific recipes so all my calculations are off, I just wanted a place to keep track of my hop schedule.

I assumed my efficiency would be terrible, but it worked out to be about 75% and I ended up with about a gallon and a half of extra wort. Next time I hope I'll be able to better predict.

Perhaps my numbers will help you figure out yours.

32.75lbs of grain (30lbs base, 2.75lbs specialty)
9 gallons collected in first runnings with SG of 1.091 (OG 1.109 @ 6 gal)
7 gallons collected in second running with SG of 1.035 (OG 1.043 @ 5.75 gal)

Actually these numbers will help hugely when I start playing with numbers...:rockin:
 
Hmmm...

If I did that, and had the mash tun open to add the grains, then conceivably couldn't I also add a few more pounds of 2-row alongside the roasted grains to bump up the gravity?

And how the heck would I figure out how much more base malt to add?...Would there be some way to calculate how much the next runnings (say another 3.5 gallons in the sparge) would be based on the preboil gravity of the first runnings? Or would I add my second batch of water, then my roasted grains and maybe take a reading from the vorloff?

I'm not really sure if the 2-row you added would do a whole lot. Your original enzymes would all be denatured, and if they weren't then the activity would still be going on that whole time of your extra mashing and you'd have a super fermentable wort.

One thing you could try would be to have an additional mash going on (in a kitchen pot or something) with your few extra pounds of base malt and your dark grains in. When your 1st runnings are drained before you add your sparge water add this 2nd mash to your 1st mash. I suppose this could complicate your calculations a bit since you'll need to use less sparge water due to that extra water from the 2nd mash.
 
Ok, so here's my thoughts on this. I've always been a fan of the "one mash two beers" concept, and have looked into it a bit, so I may not have practical experience, but I have a bit of theoretical experience. I think the way to go on this is to make your porter, but set your efficacy pretty low (say, 60 or so) as you're only going to be using the first runnings, which also means it's kinda hard to guess your OG, etc. to remedy this, use a very flexible recipe that you don't mind having a variable OG, also, very short boil, as the first runnings are pretty strong already, and I don't think you're going for a pumpkin barleywine sort of OG that would result in boiling off a bunch of water from a strong pre-boil wort.

keep in mind that usually the second runnings that are created from a mash are quite weaker, and traditionally a "small beer" created from the second runnings were around 2-3% however, one would usually make a far greater volume of small beer than strong beer, so I suppose a long vigorous boil period would bring the OG up to perhaps a nice and complex mild. Perhaps an e-mail to the brewers at Anchor would be worth it, as they are about the only brewery I can think of off the top of my head that commercially makes a small beer in this way, using the second runnings from their barlywine, perhaps they can throw you a bone or lead you down the path better than I can.

Overall, I love the concept of this project, and weather you go ahead with it would really be a matter of your style of brewing, if you love to improvise, and sort of brew "off-the-cuff" then this could be a very fun project, on the other hand, if you're more love everything happening perfectly as planned, and don't like surprises or having to tweak a recipe as you're brewing it, then this could possibly be much more of a headache than it's worth.
 
keep in mind that usually the second runnings that are created from a mash are quite weaker, and traditionally a "small beer" created from the second runnings were around 2-3% however, one would usually make a far greater volume of small beer than strong beer, so I suppose a long vigorous boil period would bring the OG up to perhaps a nice and complex mild. Perhaps an e-mail to the brewers at Anchor would be worth it, as they are about the only brewery I can think of off the top of my head that commercially makes a small beer in this way, using the second runnings from their barlywine, perhaps they can throw you a bone or lead you down the path better than I can.

I had always heard was the 2nd runnings always were about half the gravity. My results were similar to this, about 40% of the points in the 2nd vs the 1st.

There aren't any rules that say the 1st runnings are one beer and the 2nd another. You can take say 3 gal of the 1st runnings and 3 gal of the 2nd runnings for one beer and 2 gal of the 1st and 4 gal of the 2nd for a smaller beer. If you check your gravity of each collection and do the math it should be easy
 
Revvy,

You know I'm a n00b when it comes to this stuff, but why not steep the grains from the first runnings for your porter, or the even crazier idea of blending some of your first runnings with your second beer for some gravity. You can calc that in beersmith (if you did the non-porter first).
 
Revvy,

You know I'm a n00b when it comes to this stuff, but why not steep the grains from the first runnings for your porter, or the even crazier idea of blending some of your first runnings with your second beer for some gravity. You can calc that in beersmith (if you did the non-porter first).

Yeah, that's sort of looking like the conensus (at least I think so) that I'd steep the first runnings to acheive my "porter-ness."

Thanks! :D
 
Yeah, that's sort of looking like the conensus (at least I think so) that I'd steep the first runnings to acheive my "porter-ness."

Bah...Still recovering from being sick...mis-read the other posts.

This looks like a great resource!!! Even though it does invlolve me having to do my own math...never one of my strong suits.

Make an excel worksheet.
 
Is there a way to extrapolate somehow what would be needed in the mashtun for the first runnings, in order for the second runnings to loosely match the numbers of my amber ale?


Here's what my "haus amber" looks like...

Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 5.72 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 16.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 42.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 75.01 %
2.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 24.99 %
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 38.9 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 3.9 IBU

Of course, I'm asking this not having totally read the Mosher article.
 
I'm an idiot...the answer to my question is on the tables for the article...

In order for the second runnings to have an og of 1.054, the first runnings have to be 1.080 if using a 50/50 split, and for the SRMs of the Amber to be 16.4, the porter would be 39.4 srms....

Seems to me that with those two variables I could perhaps build the base recipe...unless I'm missing something here....

That would put the porter way into baltic porter range.
 
In order for the second runnings to have an og of 1.054, the first runnings have to be 1.080 if using a 50/50 split, and for the SRMs of the Amber to be 16.4, the porter would be 39.4 srms....

Seems to me that with those two variables I could perhaps build the base recipe...unless I'm missing something here....

Sounds about right to me, just remember that your house amber's not going to come out quite the same, and there's bound to be a little bit of variation (good or bad) as this is a first try doing this. I'd love to see how this turns out.
 
there is a good partygyle recipe in radical brewing by randy mosher, I would use that as my base and adjust as needed.
 
Sounds about right to me, just remember that your house amber's not going to come out quite the same, and there's bound to be a little bit of variation (good or bad) as this is a first try doing this. I'd love to see how this turns out.

Yeah I figure...and I'm not expecting perfection with this...It's also another good reason why brewing this as two 2.5 gallon batches is appealing, both because it is less overall grain, less cost, and less crappy beer to have to choke down.

Now having read this article, I'm wondering something....Since the First beer will be in the range of Baltic Porter, if all the roasted grain WERE to go in the mashtun, if we follow this "dillution" from 1.080 in batch 1 to 1.054 in batch 2, and a lightenning in color...wouldn't it follow that the flavors would lighten as well? Wouldn't that mean conceivably that I would simply have a complexly flavored amber ale, with subtle notes of chocolate and roastiness?
 
Owie My head is spinning from the maths...

Evidently working backward from the second running amber of 1.054...the first running porter would then be 1.081. Now if I am reading the articles correctly that would mean that the total batch recipe has to be 1.068.

So does that mean I have to create a base 6 gallon 1.068 recipe, which when split 50-50and boiled down to 2.5 gallons each will yield one beer @ 1.081 and one beer @ 1.054?

HELP ME!!!!!! Please????

I played around with Denny Conn's Baltic Porter Recipe, and brought it down to 1.082...

(2.5 gallon recipe)

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.97 %
0.75 lb Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
0.75 lb Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %

Now do I have to build a 6 gallon 1.068 from this grainbill in order to figure out what exactly is going in the mash ton....

I'm lost...This reminds me of the 3 dimensional chess game from star trek, way too many variables for me...I have that choking sensation I use to get during math class when I was taking a test....

I haven't even factored in the pumpkin and spices, or the hops for either...But I figured I could do them separtely for each beer, because the pumpkin, spices and hops are all going into the boils...but I'm kind of stuck at this point in building the "master" grainbill...

Anyone???

EditI looked at the spreadsheet and it made me even more confused.....
 
I finally took a look at the spreadsheet and that is a pretty complicated spreadsheet. I don't know much about this stuff, so let me read some of this and let me see if I at least can't be another set of eyes for you.
 
Yeah. You are spot on. From all of that stuff it looks like you will be doing a 50/50 split of 1.068 wort. The first runnings should be around 1.0816 wort and the rest for the 1.0544 wort. That's with the same grain bill (for the first parti-gyle it sounds a lot simpler :) ).

I think that would put your grain bill:

Code:
10 lbs 15.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.97 % 
1 lbs 7.9 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 % 
1 lbs 7.9 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 % 
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 % 
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 % 
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
 
Yeah. You are spot on. From all of that stuff it looks like you will be doing a 50/50 split of 1.068 wort. The first runnings should be around 1.0816 wort and the rest for the 1.0544 wort. That's with the same grain bill (for the first parti-gyle it sounds a lot simpler :) ).

I think that would put your grain bill:

Code:
10 lbs 15.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.97 % 
1 lbs 7.9 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 % 
1 lbs 7.9 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 % 
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 % 
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 % 
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %

Did you just do this???? You Royally Rock!!!!!

I manged to finess Beersmith at the same time you were posting this and I got the same thing...For the lurkers I'll explain what I did.

1 took the 2.5 gallon Porter Recipe and scaled it to 6 gallons. Then I used the "Adjust Gravity" button and changed it to 1.068 and this is what I got...

Recipe: Partigyle base
--------------------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.87 gal
Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated Color: 26.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 0.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.94 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.97 %
1.49 lb Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
1.49 lb Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23%
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %

Total Grain Weight: 15.41 lb

They nearly Match!!!!!!!!!

Great Minds!!!
 
They are the same ;). I just don't think in .4957 pounds so I display in pounds and ounces.

But I did the same thing you did in Beersmith.

I think you are good to go. I started reading all of this parti-gyle, and it looks like your second runnings are going to be basically a mild. I know they used to parti-gyle back in the day with first runnings a brown (before it started to transform / split off into porter) and the second runnings were a mild.

So I'd leave all of your "portery" stuff in there (not steep it), and see what happens. I'm thinking worst case scenario you can blend the two beers and you should end up with something drinkable.

I'm really thinking about trying this out (non-pumpkin). Parti-gyle sounds really complicated for a non-pro brewer like me :p.

What are you going to ferment these in. Do you have 3 gallon carboys?
 
I read this the other day in Radical Brewing, and thought it would be helpful when doing parti-gyle batches:

From Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher, pg 201:

"Capping. This is a simple technique traditionally employed to boost the gravity of the third, small beer runnings of a parti-gyle batch. The malt of choice was traditionally amber (biscuit), which works well. Crystal malt works very well for this purpose, as it contains sugars in a soluble form, and requires no further mashing. The 'cap' malt is crushed as normal, then either strewn on the surface or stirred into the upper layer of the mash, allowed to rest fifteen minutes, then run off. This is a good tool for manipulating the character of the smaller beer by adding dark or other colored malts. Crystal works well in this situation as it needs no further mashing and can boost the body, useful for second-running beers."
 
I read this the other day in Radical Brewing, and thought it would be helping when doing parti-gyle batches:

From Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher, pg 201:

"Capping. This is a simple technique traditionally employed to boost the gravity of the third, small beer runnings of a parti-gyle batch. The malt of choice was traditionally amber (biscuit), which works well. Crystal malt works very well for this purpose, as it contains sugars in a soluble form, and requires no further mashing. The 'cap' malt is crushed as normal, then either strewn on the surface or stirred into the upper layer of the mash, allowed to rest fifteen minutes, then run off. This is a good tool for manipulating the character of the smaller beer by adding dark or other colored malts. Crystal works well in this situation as it needs no further mashing and can boost the body, useful for second-running beers."

Hmmm, I just came upon that online as well....not in so much detail, but similar...there is SO little info on this style of brewing. But I appreciate everyone's help.
 
They are the same ;). I just don't think in .4957 pounds so I display in pounds and ounces.

But I did the same thing you did in Beersmith.

I think you are good to go. I started reading all of this parti-gyle, and it looks like your second runnings are going to be basically a mild. I know they used to parti-gyle back in the day with first runnings a brown (before it started to transform / split off into porter) and the second runnings were a mild.

So I'd leave all of your "portery" stuff in there (not steep it), and see what happens. I'm thinking worst case scenario you can blend the two beers and you should end up with something drinkable.

I'm really thinking about trying this out (non-pumpkin). Parti-gyle sounds really complicated for a non-pro brewer like me :p.

What are you going to ferment these in. Do you have 3 gallon carboys?

How do you adjust Beersmith NOT to give the ".4957" increments? It's a pain, is there some way to change the defaults?

I think the second beer is going to be really really flavorful with all those grains in there...It may even be tastier than the Porter one....I may even have to later do a non pumpkin partigyle of the same recipe.

For a "non-pro" brewer you did a hellova job crunching the numbers and helping me get my head around it...

I think the hardest part of the partigyle proces is actually recipe formulation NOT the All Grain part of it...Basically instead of sparging into the same brewpot, you put it in a seperate one, then brew as is. (I am probably going to have a brew buddy help me, and actually brew one of the batches.)

I've been working on an article on all grain brewing in mr beers, which means I've basically been brewing a bunch of 2.5 gallon batches lately. I have 3- 3gallon water jugs that I've been using, as well as one little mr beer fermenter...I was going to get some 3- gallon better bottles, but they are pretty expensive, so I decided to also disprove the myth that you shouldn't use water bottles for brewing (except for <7's>) all my batches have turned out great so far.

I'm actually finding that 2.5 gallon AG brewing is pretty addicting...I'm more apt to be willing to experiment with funky recipes (like this) without thinking I'm going to be stuck with a ton of beer, and it costs a lot less than brewing 5 gallon recipes...

The drawback is that these micro batches add up...I ended up doing 4 beers for the article over the period of about 3 weeks...and I already had 4-5 gallon batches in various stages of fermentation, bottle conditioning, or drinking...So now I have beer up the wazoo!!!!
 
How do you adjust Beersmith NOT to give the ".4957" increments? It's a pain, is there some way to change the defaults?

Yeah, in the units section of the options there is a checkbox at the bottom:

"For English units, display grain using both pounds and ounces"

I attached the file beersmith.jpg so you can see it.

The concepts I understand, the experience is where I lack. Small brewing sounds great for testing just these kinds of things.

beersmith.JPG
 
Yeah, in the units section of the options there is a checkbox at the bottom:

Arrgh!!! Knowing that before would have saved me from countless hours of frustration :D Thanks again!!!

Doing small batches is a great way to experiment and work on your process as well as allowing you to do full volume boils on a stove...
 
I think the key to partigyle is just remaining flexible and be prepared to change your hop schedule on the fly after you verify your preboil gravities.

Go ahead and segregate your first runnings and sparge runnings. You can also cross-dilute to get each batch into the range you want. If you 3 gallons of 1.090 and 3 gallons of 1.040, you can easily pull off a half gallon of each and swap. You'll end up with 3g of 1.081 and 3g of 1.048.
 
I think the key to partigyle is just remaining flexible and be prepared to change your hop schedule on the fly after you verify your preboil gravities.

Go ahead and segregate your first runnings and sparge runnings. You can also cross-dilute to get each batch into the range you want. If you 3 gallons of 1.090 and 3 gallons of 1.040, you can easily pull off a half gallon of each and swap. You'll end up with 3g of 1.081 and 3g of 1.048.

Thanks for the hint!

I still haven't even sat down to figure the hop and pumpkin additions yet...I think I fried my brain enough for one day.


:mug:
 
I think the key to partigyle is just remaining flexible and be prepared to change your hop schedule on the fly after you verify your preboil gravities.

Ahh...I didn't even think about the hops. So basically we figure out the estimated hops by creating the recipe for the estimated gravity of the beers, and if the gravities don't come out right, just adjust?

So we'll need three recipes.

1) Just the grain of the entire batch.

2) First Runnings (1st Beer) 1.0816 and hops (for hop schedule), pumpkin and spices.

3) Second Runnings (2nd Beer) 1.0554 and hops (for hop schedule), pumpkin and spices.
 
Ahh...I didn't even think about the hops. So basically to figure out the hops, we would need to create the recipe for the gravity of the first beer, and if the gravity doesn't come out right, just adjust? Then the same for the second beer?

So we'll need three recipes.

1) Just the grain of the entire batch.

2) First Runnings (1st Beer) 1.0816 and hops (for hop schedule), pumpkin and spices.

3) Second Runnings (2nd Beer) 1.0554 and hops (for hop schedule), pumpkin and spices.

Yeah, that's about right. I'm going to look at some of the pumpkin beers on here and the rest of the webs and see what they use...For simplicity sake, the hop types will be the same for both beers, just in different quanitites, same with the amount of pumkin and spices.
 
I've done a few parti gyles and I've had some success, but I've never gone from roasted grain to not wanting roast in the beer. I did go the other way once. I made a barley wine and then added some other grain to make a porter. I also did an imperial stout 2nd runnings that turned into a roasty brown that was kind of awesome. The way I look at the parti gyle is that it is essentially a free beer. You get what comes out and it likely won't be to style, but who cares. It is free beer.

Steeping definitely seems like your best bet for what you're looking for though. I just feel like rambling today.
 

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