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Old 01-10-2008, 04:26 PM   #1
noobrich
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Default lambic

Made a lambic waited a year and compared to a purchased bottle.

The purchased bottle is significantly more sour.
A)
I brewed one of these a couple of years ago. For the second Brettanomyces fermentation I put the vile in a starter and then pitched the starter.
B)
For the last one , the second Brettanomyces fermentation I pitched the vile directly.

If i remember correctly I thought the first one (A) was more sour.

Anyone else completing lambics and running into a shortage of sour flavour problem as me.

thanks for the help in advance.



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Old 01-10-2008, 05:28 PM   #2
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Well I have never made one myself (I have done lacto type mash additions though), but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night

Assuming you fermented then added the Brett, then bottled, then I think the limiting factor may be the lack of O2 for your Brett. Those big barrels the Lambic is stored in allow for all that wonderful spectrum of microflora who are O2 dependent to thrive. I am not sure how long the O2 in your headspace will support them.

Otherwise, it is possible you have to just wait longer. I am not sure. As long as the Brett get a foothold in the wort and you just have it in a secondary (with a wood peg or in a plastic container) it should do it's thing.

As I think about this more, did either form a pellicle?



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Old 01-10-2008, 08:28 PM   #3
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Did you pitch just a single Brett strain? It sounds like you did, and Brett alone a pLambic does not make. Especially if you want sour, like you noticed Brett does not produce much sourness by itself. You need at the least Pedio(or maybe lacto) along with the Brett. My recommendation is to use one of Wyeast's or Whitelab's sour blends. Also, when using thse blends, I have learned that when used in 2nd/3rd/etc. batches the flavor improves and the sourness increases. So repitch you bug blends ad nauseum. Hope this helps.

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Old 01-12-2008, 03:58 AM   #4
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I've made a few sour beers over the years. I have used Pedio and Wyeast 3278 and also made a lambic with just 3278 (no Pedio/Lacto). I honestly didn't notice a difference between either batch, and they both sat at least 2 years either in the bottle (at least 1 year) and the carboy (about another year). I have never tried 3278 and a Lacto strain; I have a Berlinner weisse going now with 1007 and Lacto. I'm quite interested in how that turns out. For my next Lambic, I'd use plain old 3278 and a lot of time.

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Old 01-12-2008, 12:03 PM   #5
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I've yet to do a Brett, and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but some of these guys did. If you've got a wild and woolly fermentation question, someone on the Babble Belt HomeBrew forum can answer it.

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Old 01-12-2008, 01:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avidhomebrewer
I've made a few sour beers over the years. I have used Pedio and Wyeast 3278 and also made a lambic with just 3278 (no Pedio/Lacto). I honestly didn't notice a difference between either batch, and they both sat at least 2 years...
"3278 Belgian Lambic Blend. Contains a selection of Saccharomyces add non-Saccharomyces which include Belgian style wheat beer yeast, Sherry yeast, two Brettanomyces strains and Lactic Acid Bacteria"

That lactic acid bacteria is most likely Pedio, but maybe Lacto. I'm not sure which, but those are the two big 'lactic acid bacteria'. So when you used just 3278 I think there was Pedio/Lacto in there. It is interesting to see that adding 'extra' Pedio didn't seem to make much difference.
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Old 01-13-2008, 02:16 AM   #7
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landhoney, you are correct in stating that 3278 contains a sour bacteria (either Pedio or Lacto). As I'm sure you know, lactic bacteria and pedio bacteria are two totally different strains, but they both produce the sourness desired in Lambics. I also did try a commercial Lambic (Lindemann's, which was fantastic) and my homebrewed Lambic's were more sour than that. I did hear that Hanssens Kriek is one of the most sour Lambics around. However, I haven't tried this (can't get it where I live), but I did make it and it was fantastic. Try adding some maltodextrin to the mash (maybe about 8 oz.) to give the bacteria something to eat after the yeast consume all the goodies. This is just my opinion based on my experience; take it or leave it.

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Old 01-13-2008, 02:33 AM   #8
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I have read that in order to get a more pronounced sour profile one should pitch on the remaining yeast. The sourness increases with each generation, untill the beer starts to become bad, after about the 4th.
EDIT: I didn't realise that you only used Brettanomyces and Saccharomyces cerevisiae

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Old 01-14-2008, 12:44 AM   #9
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Also, lactic acid production is dominates in months 4 through 10. When I sampled mine at 6 months, it was extremely sour. When I sampled it again at 10 months, it had mellowed considerably.

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Old 01-15-2008, 01:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feedthebear
Also, lactic acid production is dominates in months 4 through 10. When I sampled mine at 6 months, it was extremely sour. When I sampled it again at 10 months, it had mellowed considerably.
Your recepie please... and a follow up review....... the wife would love this style and any chance I get to 'loosen her up' a little bit would be beneficial


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