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View Poll Results: Should I Decoct My Amber Lager?
Yeah, it'll make a huge difference. Do it, without a doubt! 10 18.87%
No, it's not worth the extra time and effort. 13 24.53%
Maybe...but only if you have the extra time to burn 24 45.28%
Other... 6 11.32%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-18-2007, 11:09 PM   #51
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I can't wait to get into the decocts you guys are talking about. I just used one for mash out and didn't pull anything but wort to boil, so I didn't need to wait through sac rests. I want to try the real decoctions like you guys on my bocks and other lagers now that I have the facilities to do them.

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Old 09-18-2007, 11:10 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bird
I think I did that wrong.

First, I've read that you should try and pause at sac rest temps for ten minutes or so, to get some conversion out of the grains you are now going to be boiling. I flew right through these temps; the Banjo heats FAST. I thought I was right about at 150°, but I had so much carryover heat, it quickly shot into de-naturing terrirory.

I'm also pretty sure there's some other benefit I don't understand to the temperature rise being fairly gradual. I'm going to take it a bit easier next time.
This is what I was driving at. I brought my decoc's up to boil in like 30min's b/c I was under the impression that you need to get conversion from all portions of the mash - or at least as much as possible. If you don't bring the mash up very slowly don't you risk getting terrible efficiency?
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Old 09-18-2007, 11:12 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bird
I think I did that wrong.

First, I've read that you should try and pause at sac rest temps for ten minutes or so, to get some conversion out of the grains you are now going to be boiling. I flew right through these temps; the Banjo heats FAST. I thought I was right about at 150°, but I had so much carryover heat, it quickly shot into de-naturing terrirory.

I'm also pretty sure there's some other benefit I don't understand to the temperature rise being fairly gradual. I'm going to take it a bit easier next time.
I keep mine at 155 for 15-20 min. From my understanding conversion is a must in decoction mashing. The reason you get away with boiling is because of the high concentration of sugars, ph as well.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:17 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landhoney
This is what I was driving at. I brought my decoc's up to boil in like 30min's b/c I was under the impression that you need to get conversion from all portions of the mash - or at least as much as possible. If you don't bring the mash up very slowly don't you risk getting terrible efficiency?
Yeah, that's right. See my edit. I mis-spoke. I didn't take 30 minutes as you said, but I went quickly from 120 to 158, then rested there for 20 or 30 minutes to complete conversion, THEN brought it to boiling. You need conversion on those grains (it's 1/3 of your mash!!) or, as you noted, you've got to be risking terrible efficiency. As it stands, I ended up with 85%, which is roughly what I typically get with a regular stepped mash.
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Old 09-19-2007, 02:28 PM   #55
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I don't think you risk getting ZERO conversion from those grains if you boil them without stopping for the sac rest, but it won't be as high. Remember, you're returning them to the main mash later on, at sac rest temps, and there's plenty of enzymes left in the main mash to do the work. The boiling process is also supposed to break up the starches more so that when the decoction is returned, there will be more conversion (which is why, I believe, efficiency is supposed to be higher with a decoction).

So, my understanding of the sac rest before bringing the thick mash up to boil is that it is strongly recommended, but not 100% critical.

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Old 09-20-2007, 02:00 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bird
The boiling process is also supposed to break up the starches more so that when the decoction is returned, there will be more conversion (which is why, I believe, efficiency is supposed to be higher with a decoction).
So, my understanding of the sac rest before bringing the thick mash up to boil is that it is strongly recommended, but not 100% critical.
That last part about breaking up the starches is interesting, I hadn't heard that. That would increase efficiency, but what about the great maltiness and mouthfeel decoc's produce - seems like a paradox. Not disagreeing though, the mysteries of decoction....

edit>Maybe that's why decoction can be so good. You're getting maltiness from a very fermentable wort, normally maltiness is found in beers with higher final gravities/more unfermentables. Make sense? Am I stating the obvious? Dead wrong?
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:22 AM   #57
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I need to hit Noonan's book in more detail before my next decoction (about three weeks time). I'm sure Baron would chime in with the RIGHT anwser if he were around.

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