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View Poll Results: Should I Decoct My Amber Lager?
Yeah, it'll make a huge difference. Do it, without a doubt! 10 18.87%
No, it's not worth the extra time and effort. 13 24.53%
Maybe...but only if you have the extra time to burn 24 45.28%
Other... 6 11.32%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-30-2007, 08:24 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Yeast Infection
this is where i got most of my info from

http://brewery.org/library/DecoctFAQ.html
I've been using the very same page (hosted on HBD.org) in designing my mash, actually. Damn, this sounds like it'll be pretty fun. I guess that seals it: I'm going double-decoc. No looking back...

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Old 08-30-2007, 09:10 PM   #12
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Am am too planning my first decoction and looking at that diagram has me thinking. Will a protein rest of that long not kill you beer's body and head retention? I know in general can be true for protein rests and is why most don't use them...is there any reason a decoction would be diffferent?

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Old 08-30-2007, 10:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerrific
Am am too planning my first decoction and looking at that diagram has me thinking. Will a protein rest of that long not kill you beer's body and head retention? I know in general can be true for protein rests and is why most don't use them...is there any reason a decoction would be diffferent?
Not sure, but all three sources had their p-rest at least as long as mine. ProMash's German Double Decoc mash sched actually had the p-rest at 125 mins! If it were truly detrimental to body & head retention, one would think that someone would have figured it out by now.
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MOSS HOLLOW BREWING CO.
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.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan!
Not sure, but all three sources had their p-rest at least as long as mine. ProMash's German Double Decoc mash sched actually had the p-rest at 125 mins! If it were truly detrimental to body & head retention, one would think that someone would have figured it out by now.
Yeah, I guess so. I know that king of p-rest is needed if you are using under modified malts which you can buy but I don't know why you would.
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerrific
Am am too planning my first decoction and looking at that diagram has me thinking. Will a protein rest of that long not kill you beer's body and head retention? I know in general can be true for protein rests and is why most don't use them...is there any reason a decoction would be diffferent?
This is why i think its soo long:

Its because your are decocting/boiling a fraction of the mash during this time, and the other non decocted part of the mash just sits there at that temp. Since it is going from 122 ish to 152 ish, you need a large fraction of the mash to decoct = takes longer to bring to boil.

Then when you are raising from the low 150's to the high 150's, you use a smaller fraction as the decoction = less time to bring to boil.


...i think?

but i dont know if that will augment body and head retention. sorry.
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeast Infection
This is why i think its soo long:

Its because your are decocting/boiling a fraction of the mash during this time, and the other non decocted part of the mash just sits there at that temp. Since it is going from 122 ish to 152 ish, you need a large fraction of the mash to decoct = takes longer to bring to boil.

Then when you are raising from the low 150's to the high 150's, you use a smaller fraction as the decoction = less time to bring to boil.


...i think?

but i dont know if that will augment body and head retention. sorry.
I guess what i was saying could be applied to any step mash, not just a decoction. The protein rest will breakdown the proteins which contribute to the body and head retention of the beer. I did this with my hefeweizen and it came out kind of thin.

I suppose, however, that balancing the other rests may help to counter this (higher conversion temp.)?
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:26 PM   #17
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I tried decoction twice, the hefe turned out to be me best so far. I think it takes so long b/c you need to bring the decocted part of the mash to a boil very slowly. Very very slowly, b/c you need conversion from that part of the mash. When I did it, I brought 1/4(or1/3) of the mash out to get to the next step. If you do that three times, that means as much as 3/4 of your mash has been boiled. If you're bringing it to the boil and you're not getting conversion from that portion you may end up with a way low OG. Like the_bird I missed my sacc temp both times, had do another decoc. Hope this helps and makes sense, I am no expert. The fact that you're boiling such a large portion of your mash is so weird to me, seems to work though.

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Old 08-30-2007, 10:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landhoney
I tried decoction twice, the hefe turned out to be me best so far. I think it takes so long b/c you need to bring the decocted part of the mash to a boil very slowly. Very very slowly, b/c you need conversion from that part of the mash. When I did it, I brought 1/4(or1/3) of the mash out to get to the next step. If you do that three times, that means as much as 3/4 of your mash has been boiled. If you're bringing it to the boil and you're not getting conversion from that portion you may end up with a way low OG. Like the_bird I missed my sacc temp both times, had do another decoc. Hope this helps and makes sense, I am no expert. The fact that you're boiling such a large portion of your mash is so weird to me, seems to work though.
I shouldn't have a problem with hitting sacc temps, since I plan on going the good ol' direct heated mash route. If my temps are too low...just turn the burner on for a minute or two. I do love direct heat...takes a little more attention, but I never end up missing temps, etc.
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MOSS HOLLOW BREWING CO.
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.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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Old 08-31-2007, 10:03 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan!
I shouldn't have a problem with hitting sacc temps, since I plan on going the good ol' direct heated mash route. If my temps are too low...just turn the burner on for a minute or two. I do love direct heat...takes a little more attention, but I never end up missing temps, etc.
Are you planning on doing the whole temp rise by direct heat in the mash tun or are you planning on still doing the boils and just using the direct heat to make minor upward changes in the temp.

My understanding (very limited) is that its the boiling of the mash that produces a lot of the interesting profiles and not just the staged temp rises in themselves.
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Old 08-31-2007, 12:42 PM   #20
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My 0.2 pesos after several years of step & decoction mashes:

Step: definitely makes a difference on certain beers / grists. I will incorporate an acid rest into all of my Hefeweizens if at all possible, for instance. I use a coolertun, so direct heat is not an option. My two methods of stepping are decoction and infusion.

Decoction: I think it's a fun procedure when you have time. Does it make a difference in taste? I'm not so sure, at least with the grains that are available to us. I do get a big spike in efficiency, but for some people it's not worth the hours. I would hate to be put on the spot and have to pick a decocted beer out in a blind taste test.

Sometimes I do decoctions because I feel like it, and sometimes I do them because I want to step and don't have room for an infusion.

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