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Old 11-01-2012, 09:35 PM   #1
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Default Hungry yeast vs. lower attenuation yeast; achieving body

I have had this question in the back of my mind for a bit. So lets say I wanted to make a brew with about 1.060 OG, and wanted to finish it around 1.015.All other things being equal, what would be different about the beer if I used a yeast that naturally had the right attenuation to bring the beer to that point vs. using something like 3711 that would normally bring it much lower, and say, cold crashing the beer when it hit 1.015. And lets assume for time being that the yeasts had similar flavor profiles normally besides being drier or less dry.

Does this make sense?

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Old 11-01-2012, 11:02 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by GuitarGumption
I have had this question in the back of my mind for a bit. So lets say I wanted to make a brew with about 1.060 OG, and wanted to finish it around 1.015.All other things being equal, what would be different about the beer if I used a yeast that naturally had the right attenuation to bring the beer to that point vs. using something like 3711 that would normally bring it much lower, and say, cold crashing the beer when it hit 1.015. And lets assume for time being that the yeasts had similar flavor profiles normally besides being drier or less dry.

Does this make sense?
It makes sense but there is so much more involved in getting yeast to attenuate where you want: temperature, mash temp, grain bill, pitch rate, etc.

You could make two identical recipes and mash 3-5 degrees apart, pitch identical yeast and rate and get 2 different final gravity readings as an example.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:54 AM   #3
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Yes, but that's my point. With a yeast like 3711 you could mash almost anywhere between 148 and 158 and it would still bring your FG down super low if you didn't stop it. So what if you were loosy goosy about your mash temps and grain bill, but just used something like 3711 and kept a close eye on where your gravity was, and cold crashed it when it hit where you wanted it. How would this affect the final beer vs. controlling the gravity via mash temp, yeast rate, etc. ?

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Old 11-03-2012, 04:59 AM   #4
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Yes, but that's my point. With a yeast like 3711 you could mash almost anywhere between 148 and 158 and it would still bring your FG down super low if you didn't stop it. So what if you were loosy goosy about your mash temps and grain bill, but just used something like 3711 and kept a close eye on where your gravity was, and cold crashed it when it hit where you wanted it. How would this affect the final beer vs. controlling the gravity via mash temp, yeast rate, etc. ?
Mashing at different temperatures changes the FG in that more non-fermenting sugars are produced at higher mash temperatures. It won't matter what the yeast is, if there's nothing for it to go through. Attenuation level only accounts for part of the FG calculations. Unless you're using a blended pack that includes yeast AND bacteria (bret) it will only go through the sugars it can. Produce more sugars that it can't, by mashing higher, and the FG WILL be higher.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:12 AM   #5
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Mashing at different temperatures changes the FG in that more non-fermenting sugars are produced at higher mash temperatures. It won't matter what the yeast is, if there's nothing for it to go through. Attenuation level only accounts for part of the FG calculations. Unless you're using a blended pack that includes yeast AND bacteria (bret) it will only go through the sugars it can. Produce more sugars that it can't, by mashing higher, and the FG WILL be higher.
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:54 PM   #6
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Lets try this again. I understand how mash temps affect fermentable sugars.

So say I brew the exact same process. The first one I use a lower attenuation yeast, such as say 65% (number doesn't matter).

I write down the final gravity. Say it's 1.018.

Second batch, same process. I use a high attenuation yeast. Say 90%.

I carefully watch fermentation and cold crash when gravity hits 1.018.

How would these two batches differ in flavor? Would the only difference be from the yeast profiles? Or is there some other reason that it is bad to crash a fermentation before the yeast has reached it's natural attenuation?

From what I've read it could be bad first of all because the yeast doesn't have time to clean up some of it's own products of fermentation...

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Old 11-05-2012, 04:58 PM   #7
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IMO, it's a bad idea to try and stop yeast before they're fully done with the wort. Besides it would be very difficult to actually stop them as you describe. Since the yeast will do additional things with the beer after fermentation is complete, you really don't want to do that.

As for different flavors, you'll get that from using different yeasts with different spec's.

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Old 11-05-2012, 05:30 PM   #8
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Forcing the yeast to stop is different than your original hypothesis and question

I'm in agreement that you allow the yeast to do their job and manipulate desired attenuation by mash temp. Also agree that if different flavors are desired you select different yeast or for that matter alter your fermentation temperature.

If you force yeast to stop doing their job and leave fermentables, once the Tempe rises back to a workable level, fermentation will start up again and possibly cause problems in what you assumed to be a finished product

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Old 11-05-2012, 05:38 PM   #9
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Can you say BOTTLE BOMBS!!! I think you can, or you will if you try that out (forcing the yeast to stop before it's done).

At best, you would need to chemically stop the yeast, which means you'll have unfinished beer. With all the yeast does post fermentation, you'll end up with a lower quality product. IMO, not worth doing in that case.

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Old 11-05-2012, 05:38 PM   #10
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Forcing the yeast to stop is different than your original hypothesis and question

I'm in agreement that you allow the yeast to do their job and manipulate desired attenuation by mash temp. Also agree that if different flavors are desired you select different yeast or for that matter alter your fermentation temperature.

If you force yeast to stop doing their job and leave fermentables, once the Tempe rises back to a workable level, fermentation will start up again and possibly cause problems in what you assumed to be a finished product
^^ This. It is very hard to stop a fermentation. The only way would be sterile filtration or pasteurization.
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