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Old 01-29-2012, 06:18 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by BBL_Brewer View Post
When you pressure can something, you boil water (and your jars) in a somewhat sealed vessel and the pressure builds up inside. There is always some sort of pressure relief that regulates the pressure. Different foods need to be held at a certain pressure for a given amount of time to properly preserve. 15 psi for 15 minutes will render the wort sterile. For yours, I'm not sure what the settings correspond to in terms of pressure. If you knew what model it was I might be able to look it up.
Cool, thanks BBL. The stamp on the bottom of the pot is Vagor, made in Spain and says "Vitro Induction" I appreciate the help but feel a bit guilty asking any one to figure out what type of pot this is.. But hey! if you want to i won't turn down help.

to you BBL!
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Old 01-29-2012, 10:43 AM   #32
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When you can, and you don't need a pressure cooker to do it, any boiling waterbath can do. You are in essence pasteurizing/sterilizing everything, the container and contents at once. Then as the jar cools, you are also creating a vacuum in the jars which further protects the contents from anything getting in. A pressure cooker really just speeds up the processm but it's like a stirplate where making starters are concernd, it's nice to have if you have one, but you can do it without it.

You can do it in any pot that can hold your jars in.

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Old 01-29-2012, 11:35 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Dan
So it's 10:22 pm, I have a gallon of water and 4 cups of crushed two row (my scale died so had to do basic volume measurements) sitting in a crockpot which for the time being is set on high. I didn't realize it was so late so thinking about setting the crockpot to low before I go to bed and just let it mash away till morning.
How did this work? I would be shocked if it didn't blow right by mash temp (even on low) too fast to get effective conversion.

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Old 01-29-2012, 11:48 AM   #34
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When you can, and you don't need a pressure cooker to do it, any boiling waterbath can do. You are in essence pasteurizing/sterilizing everything, the container and contents at once. Then as the jar cools, you are also creating a vacuum in the jars which further protects the contents from anything getting in. A pressure cooker really just speeds up the processm but it's like a stirplate where making starters are concernd, it's nice to have if you have one, but you can do it without it.

You can do it in any pot that can hold your jars in.
With all due respect, this is dangerous advice. Boiling does not sterilize it sanitizes. Proper pressure cooking effectively sterilizes. Improper canning techniques can lead to spoilage of the canned product, possibly by disease causing organisms including botulism.

If you are going to can wort, please research and understand proper canning techniques. For most of us, freezing is safer and easier.

Adam
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Old 01-29-2012, 11:51 AM   #35
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With all due respect, this is dangerous advice. Boiling does not sterilize it sanitizes.
With all due respect, you do know that people have been canning by the boiling method for hundreds of years, right????????? It's hardly dangerous if it's considered one of the best methods of preserving food, is it?

And if you google Boiling and Steralization you will find plenty of citations that reference boiling as a means of steralization. Like this- http://www.mhcs.health.nsw.gov.au/pu...TS-669-ENG.pdf

According to the National Center for Home Food Preservation...To steralize jars prior to canning you boil them. Sterilization of Empty Jars

How To Sterilize Canning Jars

You may want to quibbile on some microbiological level, but it canning food, which canning wort is the same thing, the commonly accepted term for boiling something to render it usable for canning IS sterilization.
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Old 01-29-2012, 12:00 PM   #36
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From Simply Canning.....

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In Water Bath Canning sterilizing jars is not needed IF processing time is more than 10 minutes Most recipes call for at least 10 minutes processing time or more.

You don't need to sterilize for pressure canning. Everything will be well sterilized by the high heat involved in pressure processing.

Read more: http://www.simplycanning.com/sterili...#ixzz1kqrqOud6

You must however start with clean jars so be sure and always wash your jars before you do any type of canning. I am assuming you would know that all equipment needs to be clean before any canning.

I don't personally use any recipes that call for less than 10 minutes, I am at high altitude and everything has time added.

If you do have a recipe that calls for less than 10 minutes you might consider adding time to your processing. This way you can simply skip this step. It is up to you.

Go ahead and check your recipe, does it call for less than 10 minutes processing time? Don't forget to figure you altitude. If so you should be sterilizing first.
Here's how:

Place empty jars right side up on the rack in a boiling-water canner.
Fill the canner and jars with hot (not boiling) water to one inch above the tops of the jars.
Bring to a boil and boil 10 minutes.
Carefully remove hot, sterilized jars one at a time and drain.
They will be hot!
Leave the hot water left in your canner for processing filled jars.

Continue with your canning recipe.

Read more: http://www.simplycanning.com/sterili...#ixzz1kqrycrcv
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Old 01-29-2012, 12:51 PM   #37
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Revvy,

Yes, people have been water bath canning for hundreds of years... with certain foods. Foods that are highly acidic or that have large amounts of added sugar are included in this group. Most foods DO require pressure canning. If this wasn't true, why would anyone own a pressure canner? The section of the canning website that you quoted about water bath canning is specifically for the high acid foods that can be safely canned this way. There is another section on that website (which I quote below) that deals with pressure canning for low acid foods.

If you google boiling and sterilization, you will find many references that say "sterilization" when they mean "sanitation". Frighteningly, this includes the health department link that you listed. Not only does boiling not sterilize to begin with, once the items are removed, any part of the item exposed to air would no longer be sterile. When you properly pressure can, the lids seal to the jars before the lid is removed from the pressure canner, preventing non-sterile air from contacting the food.

From the pressure canning page of the site you referenced:

These directions are for pressure canning low acid foods. This includes any meat and most vegetables.

Pickles, jam jelly, or fruits are all high acid foods. If you are preserving these you need to be on my Water Bath Canning Page.
Wort is not a high acid food. a pH in the low 4's is required to safely can without pressure.

From the Sterliziation wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterili..._(microbiology)) Not that even here, they incorrectly use the term "sterilization". In any case, the point is that they go on to correctly state that pressure canning effectively sterilizes.
Although imperfect, cooking and canning are the most common applications of heat sterilization. Boiling water kills the vegetative stage of all common microbes. Roasting meat until it is well done typically completely sterilizes the surface. Since the surface is also the part of food most likely to be contaminated by microbes, roasting usually prevents food poisoning. Note that the common methods of cooking food do not sterilize food - they simply reduce the number of disease-causing micro-organisms to a level that is not dangerous for people with normal digestive and immune systems.

Pressure cooking is analogous to autoclaving and when performed correctly renders food sterile. However, some foods are notoriously difficult to sterilize with home canning equipment, so expert recommendations should be followed for home processing to avoid food poisoning.
So, I will freely admit that part of my motivation for my initial reply was because the whole Sanitation vs. Sterilization thing is a major pet peeve of mine (I work in surgery, sanitized doesn't cut it!) but also because I truly believe that improperly canning wort (which is made to be a great growth medium) can be potentially dangerous.

Adam
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Old 01-29-2012, 01:55 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamreef View Post
Revvy,

Yes, people have been water bath canning for hundreds of years... with certain foods. Foods that are highly acidic or that have large amounts of added sugar are included in this group. Most foods DO require pressure canning. If this wasn't true, why would anyone own a pressure canner? The section of the canning website that you quoted about water bath canning is specifically for the high acid foods that can be safely canned this way. There is another section on that website (which I quote below) that deals with pressure canning for low acid foods.

If you google boiling and sterilization, you will find many references that say "sterilization" when they mean "sanitation". Frighteningly, this includes the health department link that you listed. Not only does boiling not sterilize to begin with, once the items are removed, any part of the item exposed to air would no longer be sterile. When you properly pressure can, the lids seal to the jars before the lid is removed from the pressure canner, preventing non-sterile air from contacting the food.

From the pressure canning page of the site you referenced:
These directions are for pressure canning low acid foods. This includes any meat and most vegetables.

Pickles, jam jelly, or fruits are all high acid foods. If you are preserving these you need to be on my Water Bath Canning Page.
Wort is not a high acid food. a pH in the low 4's is required to safely can without pressure.

From the Sterliziation wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterili..._(microbiology)) Not that even here, they incorrectly use the term "sterilization". In any case, the point is that they go on to correctly state that pressure canning effectively sterilizes.
Although imperfect, cooking and canning are the most common applications of heat sterilization. Boiling water kills the vegetative stage of all common microbes. Roasting meat until it is well done typically completely sterilizes the surface. Since the surface is also the part of food most likely to be contaminated by microbes, roasting usually prevents food poisoning. Note that the common methods of cooking food do not sterilize food - they simply reduce the number of disease-causing micro-organisms to a level that is not dangerous for people with normal digestive and immune systems.

Pressure cooking is analogous to autoclaving and when performed correctly renders food sterile. However, some foods are notoriously difficult to sterilize with home canning equipment, so expert recommendations should be followed for home processing to avoid food poisoning.
So, I will freely admit that part of my motivation for my initial reply was because the whole Sanitation vs. Sterilization thing is a major pet peeve of mine (I work in surgery, sanitized doesn't cut it!) but also because I truly believe that improperly canning wort (which is made to be a great growth medium) can be potentially dangerous.

Adam
+1. My wife the physician and my mother the canning enthusiast both endorse the contents of this message. It's not as if every improperly canned food will automatically kill its consumer, but botulism is nasty, nasty stuff.
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Old 01-29-2012, 02:02 PM   #39
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or you could always brew a beer and save some of the runnings for yeast starters. boil it, cool it and refrigerate it in a sanitized container or freeze
This.

Increase your batch size by a half gallon or whatever you need, then you will have a starter wort ready for your next brew day.
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Old 01-29-2012, 02:18 PM   #40
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Not being an expert, it was also my impression that wort needed to be pressure canned prior to long term storage. Freezing would probably work for a few months, and refrigeration for a week or two.

I routinely can wort for starters. I try to make it pretty concentrated (1.070 or so) so I can use smaller mason jars/more per batch.

When I make the starter I put a pint of water in my starter flask, boil to sterilize, cool and add the canned wort. Pitch and go.

I don't particularly do it to save money. I do it because I want to keep complete control of my beer. Well, and because if I wanted to do it the easy way, I'd just go buy some beer.

L

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