How Can I fix my Water?

Some of my IPA's have had a astringent off flavor.

My unaltered water profile is:
76 ppm Ca - Calcium
36 ppm Mg – Magnesium
39 ppm Na – Sodium
76 ppm Cl – Chloride
42 ppm SO4 – Sulfate
340 ppm CaCO3 – Alkalinity

I have used up to 4 grams of Gypsum & 6ml of 88% Lactic Acid for a 6 gal batch. My system works best with a 1.75 qt/lb mash consistency.

What should I do differently to adjust the PH and Alkalinity?

Sample Grain bill:
Grain:
9.0 lbs Base (2-Row)
3.9 lbs British Golden Promise
1.1 lbs English Medium Crystal
.75 lbs Aromatic Malt
0.2 lbs Roasted Barley

Sample Hops:
0.6 oz Amarillo Gold – 60 min
2.0 oz Warrior – 60 min
2.4 oz Amarillo Gold – 0 min

Can you describe the off-flavor for us?

My end products have not been as good since I have tried to adjust the PH with noticeable harsh hop profiles, cloudiness, and a few batches with a sharp bitter profile maybe even astringent. I cannot compare it to anything, because it is not a desirable flavor, but I would call it a sharp, rough, bitter taste.

I started adjusting my PH after I moved and had the water tested. Prior, I didn't know what my water profile was, nor did I check the PH during the mash. Dumb luck I guess.

And you are using the same hops from the same harvest as before?

Different hops, and different styles. The worst was a NB honey brown that I made for my dad. The bitter flavor was so pronounced that I threw the whole batch out & started doing more research.

If it were me, I would brew an identical recipe as you have before your new water to get that comparison. If possible, use hops from an old lot that you've used before.

Assuming it is the water/pH adjustments, I would try diluting your water with RO or DI water. You can get a 5 gallon jug of RO from most grocery stores or Walmart for about $1.75 or $2. I would start at 50%. Enter that data into your spreadsheet, measure your mash pH, and taste the end product. It may be an iterative process, so keep detailed notes.

Nice to know about the RO water in 5 gal jugs... I could swing that.

I am thinking of using 100% RO water for the mash, and sparging with the tap water.

6.5 gal RO & 4 gal tap

RyanKraus said:

Nice to know about the RO water in 5 gal jugs... I could swing that.

I am thinking of using 100% RO water for the mash, and sparging with the tap water.

6.5 gal RO & 4 gal tap

Click to expand...

That would be fine; just make sure to make necessary adjustments to your mash to bring the pH within desired range. It shouldn't take much.

Your best bet is to enter your profile into a calculator, enter your RO water cut, enter your grain bill, then enter your beer profile. It will tell you if you are in range, or what adjustments to make.
Otherwise, you're just guessing.
Try Brewers Friend: http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

Oops, sorry, double post...

Funny this is my first post even though I have been lingering around here for about 2 years..... I suck... but I do have some information to hopefully help

anyways here is what I see;

Gypsum = Calcium Sulfate

When you are adding 6 grams of Gypsum you are devastating your chloride to sulfate ratio, a higher sulfate to chloride water profile is going to enhance the bitterness of your beer. Now taking that into account and adding in two hops with higher Alpha Acids, Warrior - 16%ish Amarillo - 9%ish, with lower Beta Acids you are sort of encouraging a pretty bitter, sharp almost astringent beer.

My 2 suggestions
As stated, cut your water with some RO, then adjust if needed likely with just some Lactic acid.

or

Balance out your sulfates to chloride ratio with some Calcium Chloride, in a 4gal mash I would say 1.5ish Grams of Gypsum 1ish Gram of Calc. Chloride an 4ml or so of lactic acid, that should get your PH closer to an acceptable range for conversion without adding any real detectable levels of anything.

Anyways that is my 2 pennies... Hello Homebrew talk!

xUffax said:

Gypsum = Calcium Sulfate

When you are adding 6 grams of Gypsum you are devastating your chloride to sulfate ratio, a higher sulfate to chloride water profile is going to enhance the bitterness of your beer. Now taking that into account and adding in two hops with higher Alpha Acids, Warrior - 16%ish Amarillo - 9%ish, with lower Beta Acids you are sort of encouraging a pretty bitter, sharp almost astringent beer.

Click to expand...

I add the 3-4 grams of Gypsum to balance out the Chloride/Sulfate Ratio. My water profile naturally has a ratio of 1.81. By adding the 4 grams I got .77 which I believe is on the low end of balanced. For non-IPA beers, I use ~3 grams of gypsum which yields around 1.0 ratio.

Am I doing my calcs wrong?

I guess it depends on the amount of water you are using for mashing and sparging, assuming your total water usage is 10 gallons then 3-4 grams of gypsum would put you right on the edge of "balanced" In my head I'm just seeing a good dose of High AAU with a sulfate content exceeding the chloride. But i guess the odd part I just realized would be you also had the bitterness in a Brown... hmmm.

Maybe its a long shot, but where was your water tested?? You did receive Sulfate as SO4 and not as Sulfur SO4 -S? Haha cause that would be a HUGE difference.

In my brews I typically don't like bringing my sulfate over my chloride, maybe personal preference?

Also possibly look into your grain, or mashing process, excess tannins can cause astringency, it really is hard to tell.

As for cloudiness, I would look towards the yeast, fermentation temps, length of fermentation, etc.

Maybe give the RO a shot and see if the off flavor you are detecting persists or not, I know there are still some off flavors that I am trouble shooting :cross: we are our own worst critics haha.

I think I'm running on with this one.....

Thanks for the help. Ward tested the water, and the sulfate was tested as SO4-S = 14. I multiplied it by 3 to get the sulfate for the calculator.

One thing that I was not doing was adjusting my sparge water which has high alkalinity and a PH of 7.7.

I am going to try the RO route I think.

Does anyone have experience adjusting RO water for sparging?

An important aspect of sparging water is that it have very low alkalinity. RO water (that has been verified to have low TDS) has very little alkalinity and does not need to be acidified. You can still acidify it, but it will only take a drop or two to send the pH plummeting.

Thanks!