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Old 08-26-2010, 05:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by shamilton View Post
Alright, like the first post in the entire thread...perhaps this is the same thing, or maybe it is something different, so here it goes:



So I decided to try and make my first all-grain, light lager today. I used 7.5 lbs. of Pilsen 2-Row Malt, 1 lb. Vienna Malt, and .5 lbs. Carapils. I followed this mash-schedule:

122 – 140 – 155 degrees F (thirty minutes at each)

When it came to the boil, I noticed something I’ve never noticed in the all-grain ales I’ve done. There were tons and tons of small little floating things. At first, I thought they were just the proteins that would disappear after the hot-break, but then they remained there till the very end.

I recirculated my wort numerous times, so I am almost certain that it is not grain that slipped through my mash-tun. I am thinking it has to do something with this new Pilsen malt I’ve never used before. When I got a bunch of the floating things in my hand, I could mash them together; very pliable, almost like drudge from the hops on the walls of a primary, so they couldn’t have been grain husks. Remember, they were there before any hop addition too, so I don’t think that it came from the hops either.

Could someone PLEASE tell me what this stuff is? And if you know, how do I get rid of it? Or will it do it automatically after I rack to the secondary and then to the keg?

Appreciate it,

Cheers!
I dunno. I saw a whole bunch of it when I brewed on Sunday too. I was using Briess Pilsner malt as the base malt. I just called it hot break. It precipitated out with most of the hop trub just fine though. Didn't get in my fermenter.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:33 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Randar View Post
Cold break would end up in the fermenter but once cold break forms, those proteins are no longer soluble. The issue as I understand is if you do not get a good break these proteins do not denature and will stay in suspension, which is why you will see chill haze.

If you get good hot and cold break it won't matter if some of the material ends up in the fermenter or even in the bottle (obvious not ideal) as they will not re-suspend. They are just as they have been described... denatured insoluble proteins

Irish Moss << Whirlflocc << SuperMoss
Randar, youve posted an opinion on something I have been researching without (clear) answer for many months now - basically whether the cold break process is reversible. I've been working under the assumption that cold break will return to suspension if not removed from the wort (and most likely once the wort starts to warm up with fermentation activity)
Consequently I've been trying all sorts of jiggery pokery to seperate out the break before fermentation (whirlpooling, settling tanks, combination of the two) and have been a) not entirely satisfied with the results and b) frustrated with the "processing overhead" so if you are sure that properly triggered break will never find its way back into suspension then I'll return to a process of aggressively breaking the wort, letting it settle over a week and then racking for a few more.
So my question is are you absolutely sure that cold break is not reversible?- thanks man!
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:07 AM   #23
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Yup, I have the same problem. It's really hot here in LA (lower Alabama) and the ground water is about 80* F. I've started using a prechiller with an old immersion chiller I had. I have another immersion chiller that I place in my hot wort and I place my old one in an ice chest full of ice water. It makes a difference, but still takes me too long to get my temps down to pitching temperatures. I'm tossing around the idea of getting a counterflow chiller and using the prechiller in combination. Of course, that means I will also have to get a pump, but, that is something I will ultimately use with the Brutus style setup I'm slowly putting together...
I have done some research on this topic and several folks have suggested that recirculating ice water with a pond pump (mine is 140 gph) is far more efficient than using a pre-chiller in an ice bath. Depending on your flow rates, the pre-chiller may not be getting as cold as you could get by directly pumping ice water through the CF.
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Old 09-02-2010, 06:14 PM   #24
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Randar, youve posted an opinion on something I have been researching without (clear) answer for many months now - basically whether the cold break process is reversible. I've been working under the assumption that cold break will return to suspension if not removed from the wort (and most likely once the wort starts to warm up with fermentation activity)
Consequently I've been trying all sorts of jiggery pokery to seperate out the break before fermentation (whirlpooling, settling tanks, combination of the two) and have been a) not entirely satisfied with the results and b) frustrated with the "processing overhead" so if you are sure that properly triggered break will never find its way back into suspension then I'll return to a process of aggressively breaking the wort, letting it settle over a week and then racking for a few more.
So my question is are you absolutely sure that cold break is not reversible?- thanks man!
I think you could reverse cold break by heating the wort back up to near boiling and slow cooling, but why would you? Under normal homebrewing conditions I don't think that the proteins can easily refold themselves without a lot of extra energy.
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:26 AM   #25
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I think you could reverse cold break by heating the wort back up to near boiling and slow cooling, but why would you? Under normal homebrewing conditions I don't think that the proteins can easily refold themselves without a lot of extra energy.
Sounds reasonable to me. The next question I suppose is if you trigger lots of hot/cold break and dump it all into the fermentor is it necessary to rack? I've read a bordering-on-acrimonious discussion about the necessity of racking elsewhere on the site - and I would say on the whole the "no-rack" camp seemed more persuasive (led by everyones favourite clergyman Revvy). No sure whether seperating the break was a precondition of the no-rack theory
??
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:29 AM   #26
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Sounds reasonable to me. The next question I suppose is if you trigger lots of hot/cold break and dump it all into the fermentor is it necessary to rack? I've read a bordering-on-acrimonious discussion about the necessity of racking elsewhere on the site - and I would say on the whole the "no-rack" camp seemed more persuasive (led by everyones favourite clergyman Revvy). No sure whether seperating the break was a precondition of the no-rack theory
??
In my opinion, no. I've heard theories that hot break can give off flavors, but I've never had that happen to me.

After a couple of weeks in the fermenter, the break material compacts down with the yeast and other trub and it's amazing how compact it becomes! All of that fluffy break material "smooshes" down quite a lot.
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