Hi guys, new all grain brewer here and was thinking about beginning to understand water chemistry. I know you can get a water report from your water source, but i have also read how the readings can change at different points throughout the year, and the numbers you are basing adjustments off of may no longer even be accurate. My question is, I work at a place that has a pool and we use a Color Q meter to test the water. This meter tests free chlorine, total chlorine, pH, calcium hardness, total alkalinity, and cyanuric acid. Would this tell me enough about my water and be accurate enough to tell me if I need to make any sort of water adjustments? If so, I think this would be much more accurate as I could test the water the week I am going to brew and make my adjustments off current data as opposed to months old data. Thanks in advance for any replies.
Help understanding basic water chemistry
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Yes, it is a start. Using pool test kits for calcium and magnesium hardness and alkalinity can help guide you as to the water and it's most important effect on mashing pH. But you still should obtain information on the rest of the ions in the tap water. Most pool test kits can't provide that.
Pretty new to brewing here too. But rather than depend on a local (and changing) water report or the average numbers reported by the bottled water folks, I simplified things and bought a cheap RO system and a float valve on Amazon. Total cost for the set up was about $60.
Starting with RO water allows me to start with a clean slate so to speak. Then I simply use my brewing software to figure out what additions I need for the style being brewed.
I know this didn't directly answer your question, but I just thought I'd throw it out there as an option to doing all that testing you mentioned. And it'll give you more consistency than your local municipal water supply.
Starting with RO water allows me to start with a clean slate so to speak. Then I simply use my brewing software to figure out what additions I need for the style being brewed.
I know this didn't directly answer your question, but I just thought I'd throw it out there as an option to doing all that testing you mentioned. And it'll give you more consistency than your local municipal water supply.
frettfreak
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have you made beer with just filtered water from your place yet? I would say try that first before you get into the whole water chemistry stuff. Yes, you can go DEEP down that rabbit hole and you MIGHT get a better beer out of it. But i would run your water through a cheap carbon filter (gets rid of chlorine and such) and see what you get. Depending on what you like to brew you may find that it makes great beer just like that. I did for sure. and when i want to make something on the lighter side, i add in a gallon or 2 of ro water i get from the store (its 25 cents a gallon). My water is a little on the hard side, but makes for fantastic darker beers. I would also suggest you look at this article: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/
Its a different way of looking at water chemistry that makes it a little easier IMO.
Its a different way of looking at water chemistry that makes it a little easier IMO.
sky4meplease
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In my limited experience brewing with water that you don't know the composition of would be like walking into your LHBS and gathering the ingredients for a brew day without labels on anything.
Sure you could look, taste and smell the ingredients to try and get close but after that your going to get what you get without much control.
Without the proper water for the style and grain bill your ph could wind up off and the balance between malt and hop is out of your control.
I learned this after brewing Lagers with well water and dark beers with R/O water and being less than pleased with the results.
I picked up Palmer and Kaminski's "Water A Comprehensive Guide for Brewers" and educated myself on water chemistry a little and it has helped quite a bit.
Sure you could look, taste and smell the ingredients to try and get close but after that your going to get what you get without much control.
Without the proper water for the style and grain bill your ph could wind up off and the balance between malt and hop is out of your control.
I learned this after brewing Lagers with well water and dark beers with R/O water and being less than pleased with the results.
I picked up Palmer and Kaminski's "Water A Comprehensive Guide for Brewers" and educated myself on water chemistry a little and it has helped quite a bit.
Singletrack
Because it's judgement that defeats us.
It's always nice to know where the OP lives. I guess some people either want to keep that private, or they just don't fill in the profile. In this case, it would be nice to know your water source. In many So Cal communities, there are several different water sources and the percent from each changes throughout the year, so the water chemistry varies all over the map. In Big Bear Lake, the water always comes from the same source -- pumped groundwater, so it is very consistent. The water report is fairly specific and rarely changes, even from year to year. No need to do a bunch of periodic testing here.
So OP, where are you and where does your water come from?
So OP, where are you and where does your water come from?
frettfreak
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I am not the op obviously but live literally 30 min from you in apple Valley (almost Lucerne)! Lol but I can get where you are coming from with the changing sources. That's exactly how my water source works and it's kinda lame. However once thing that is fairly constant is that it's always very hard water. So at least I know that. Lol
Singletrack
Because it's judgement that defeats us.
Yeah, consistent doesn't necessarily mean good. I blend a lot of RO. But at least I know what I'm bending with.
frettfreak
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In my case, for all intents and purposes, it's pretty bad. My ppm is usually around 350. My water sucks... But apparently it's ok for dark beers.
If you're truely new to home brewing, and are just getting into all grain brewing.... I might suggest that you simply use your tap water to brew for the time being.
We can all get caught up in the technical aspects of the hobby, but we all need to relax a bit and realize that it IS a hobby.
Once you've gotten a really good handle on the techniques, then worry about water chemistry... if ever. Beer has been brewed since the beginning of the art by simply pulling a number of gallons of water from the local water source.
Unless your water tastes really nasty, why worry about over complicating things by worrying about water chemistry.
Just an observation from a person who has been brewing for 12 years and who has always used water directly from the tap.... oh yeah... and one that brews really REALLY good beer.
We can all get caught up in the technical aspects of the hobby, but we all need to relax a bit and realize that it IS a hobby.
Once you've gotten a really good handle on the techniques, then worry about water chemistry... if ever. Beer has been brewed since the beginning of the art by simply pulling a number of gallons of water from the local water source.
Unless your water tastes really nasty, why worry about over complicating things by worrying about water chemistry.
Just an observation from a person who has been brewing for 12 years and who has always used water directly from the tap.... oh yeah... and one that brews really REALLY good beer.
bigdongsr94
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More importantly, what type of system and what style of brews. I do full volume BIAB with light colored beers. If that is the case my experience without using acids and RO was brew and dump that beer a week later. If you do a standard mash thickness and not Full volume then disregard my statement.
I say go RO though anyway.
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
I say go RO though anyway.
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
Sorry to go off topic, but how on earth did you manage to only spend $60 on an RO system AND float valve? Please share...
BOT - OP, starting with RO water and learning the basics of water chemistry as it relates to brewing will shorten the learning curve for you tremendously!
Aw! This could be the poster child quote of why it IS so important to know about your water and treat it properly.
Having practiced engineering in Florida for over 25 years and having direct knowledge of the water supply in Mr. Carter's city, I do know that the water in this part of the state is exceptionally pure...almost RO water quality. It IS a great starting point for many beers and I have no doubt that his beers are excellent. However, there is NO WAY that someone in some other part of the world with less desirable water should take the advice above and apply it to their brewing.
As those brewers have probably already found, just because their water tastes great, it doesn't make great beer. The only thing that can be said is that: "If the water tastes like crap, the beer will taste like crap." You can't just turn the statement around and assume that it's correct or factual.
Remember, even if you have perfect water...not an ion in it, it is NOT perfect for all brewing. There will be beers that require some sort of brewing water adjustment to create really excellent beers. Sure, you can brew good beer with it, but it is likely that minor water adjustments can take a good beer to great.
Take a look at your water report. A lot of times they'll report the range of values that they have seen over the course of the year. Mine for example shows a lot of variation in alkalinity and hardness, but pH and mineral levels don't change all that much. If you have a similar situation, you might be able to basically do your pool test and just assume that the other values your test doesn't cover are within a relatively narrow range and you won't have to know exactly what they are that particular day.
Double checked because my memory isn't what is used to be. Ends up, I was wrong. It was $76 all in. $68 for the RO system, $8 for the float.
Aquatic Life RO Buddie Three Stage Reverse Osmosis, 50-Gallon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DOG63OY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Kerick Valve MA252 PVC Mini Float Valve, Tank Mount, Adjustable Arm, 1.5 gpm at 60 psi, 1/4" Tube https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0077RAX4W/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
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All very good points. Just wanted to stress that we are hobbiests, and not brew masters. I will yield though on the fact that if I were living in an area where my water had an off flavor of some kind, I would make adjustments. I just like to keep things as simple as possible, and I'm a home brewer that has to keep reminding myself that I am definitely not a master brewer.... never will be.
Singletrack
Because it's judgement that defeats us.
The OP lost interest. Was it something we said?
Flipadelphia
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Being a hobbyist doesn't preclude you from diving into the more technical aspects of the hobby to create the best product possible, that isn't for professionals only.
Calichusetts
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http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/
Start here. Put in your water profile and read up on mash pH. No sense in starting a hobby, making a few terrible products and losing interest. I made several of my best beers when I first started and had no idea what I was doing. But that was a lot of luck and starting with clone/award winning recipes and going from there. Now, I've removed the luck part, makes good beer so much more rewarding.
Start here. Put in your water profile and read up on mash pH. No sense in starting a hobby, making a few terrible products and losing interest. I made several of my best beers when I first started and had no idea what I was doing. But that was a lot of luck and starting with clone/award winning recipes and going from there. Now, I've removed the luck part, makes good beer so much more rewarding.
Some folks just love to argue.
I'll gladly yield to your superior intellect if it will end this volley.
Flipadelphia
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Pretty sure looking back that you're the one that began the "volley", friend.
