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Old 11-05-2012, 05:27 PM   #1
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Default Help With a Promash Decoction Schedule?

I would like to clone Scheider Weisse Original Tap 7 and I found what looks like a very good recipe for it. Trouble is, I'm not sure how read the schedule below. I've brewed plenty of all grain but never done a decoction or used Promash. Any help?


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strike 5 15 93 93 Infuse 97 7.58 1.00 Protein Rest 5 125 122 122 Infuse 212 2.93 1.39 Low Mash 95 65 152 152 Decoc 212 4.60 0.65 (Decoc Thickness) High Mash 40 30 166 166 Decoc 212 3.01 1.50 (Decoc Thickness) Sparge 5 30 168 168 Infuse 180 2.01 1.65

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Old 11-06-2012, 01:32 AM   #2
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Bumpo?

Help a brudda out!

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Old 11-06-2012, 01:22 PM   #3
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Sorry, I don't have the software and that formatting is horrible. I would highly recommend watching the northern brewer/brewtv video on decoction. It is a really walks through the steps and you can see how thick the different steps should be.

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Old 11-07-2012, 07:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrManifesto View Post
I would like to clone Scheider Weisse Original Tap 7 and I found what looks like a very good recipe for it. Trouble is, I'm not sure how read the schedule below. I've brewed plenty of all grain but never done a decoction or used Promash. Any help?


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strike 5 15 93 93 Infuse 97 7.58 1.00 Protein Rest 5 125 122 122 Infuse 212 2.93 1.39 Low Mash 95 65 152 152 Decoc 212 4.60 0.65 (Decoc Thickness) High Mash 40 30 166 166 Decoc 212 3.01 1.50 (Decoc Thickness) Sparge 5 30 168 168 Infuse 180 2.01 1.65
I love Promash. Here's is a set of screenshots that will help you fill in your #'s, not even attempting to model any mash. The top is for the infusion steps, the bottom is for the decoction steps - note the labels change depending on what you click on (infusion vs decoction step). The 0.65 (thick decoction) and 1.5 (thin decoction) probably affect the heat capacity part of the calculations. I've found that you always need more infusion or decoction volume than Promash calculates.

I've filled in YOUR #'s into a table out of curiosity (pic below). Some of the timings seem a little strange because of how long they are. Identifying the rest temperatures and times is probably the most important part and you can figure out with other tools how to do it with your system. Also note that there is no planned temperature loss during these steps - pull more decoction than needed and have near boiling water around to hit your temperatures in real life.

promash.jpg
promash_1.jpg
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:35 PM   #5
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When I do a single decoction I just split the batch at the begining, starting one portion at about 122, bringing the other to a boil for 10 minutes, then combining them to reach the sacch rest. For multiples it does take a bit more planning.

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Old 11-12-2012, 03:25 AM   #6
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Sorr to bump this again but this still seems like gibberish and badly formatted columns to me. Anyone feel generous enough to break it down, like with a crayon?

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Old 11-12-2012, 01:41 PM   #7
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As written plus random comments:

Mash in with 7.58 quarts of 97 degree water. Hold for 15 minutes at 93.

Add 2.93 quarts of boiling water for protein rest. Hold for 125 minutes at 122. (This seems nutty - more like 20 minutes)

Remove 4.6 quarts of thick mash. (scoop from the bottom and kinda drain the liquid from the side - see video) Bring that to a boil and return to the tun. Hold for 65 min at 152.

Remove 3.01 quarts of thin mash. Bring that to a boil and return to the tun. Hold for 30 minutes at 166.

Sparge to collect your boil volume.

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Old 11-12-2012, 02:10 PM   #8
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Thanks bill!

If I was making this, I'd dough-in thick (0.8 qt/lb) at 110F and wait 20 minutes (Ferulic Acid Rest), infuse with boiling water to 152F (probaby end up at 2 qt/lb) and wait for conversion (60-90 minutes, iodine test negative). Drain "some" of the first runnings, boil for a few minutes, dump back into the mash tun, stir, vorlauf, drain, sparge.

This was the mash schedule for my Hefeweizen.

I like to drain the mash tun in the about 160F, either with infusing with boiling water or doing the thin decoction (as described above). Both ways accomplish that with very little effort. If it's German, the thin decoction seems more appropriate.

hefeweizen.jpg

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Old 11-14-2012, 05:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billl View Post
As written plus random comments:

Mash in with 7.58 quarts of 97 degree water. Hold for 15 minutes at 93.

Add 2.93 quarts of boiling water for protein rest. Hold for 125 minutes at 122. (This seems nutty - more like 20 minutes)

Remove 4.6 quarts of thick mash. (scoop from the bottom and kinda drain the liquid from the side - see video) Bring that to a boil and return to the tun. Hold for 65 min at 152.

Remove 3.01 quarts of thin mash. Bring that to a boil and return to the tun. Hold for 30 minutes at 166.

Sparge to collect your boil volume.
Here we go, thanks for breaking it down.

Seems like I'd like have more temp loss, only using around 2 gallons at 97, I would think there would be more than 4 degrees temp loss. When I mash in using 1.5q per pound, I usually figure in 15 degrees temp loss (like if I'm trying to hit 152 I mash in at 167), which gets me around 4 degrees over, which is perfect because I stir like a maniac for 10min anyway, mixing and cooling.

Thanks for this!
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:42 PM   #10
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The temp drop is not the same scale when you are working with temps that are close together. eg you put 70 degree grains in 160 degree water, and you get a big temp drop. You put the same 70 degree grains in 72 degree water and the temp will hardly budge. That is why you either need to use one of the mash calculators or be prepared to do some thermodynamics calculations.

Easy "trick" - always boil more wort than the calculations say. Then, add the calculated amount in first and check the temp. If you need to raise it, you have more boiling wort already. If not, you can let that extra sit in the pot and cool for a couple minutes before adding it back in. An extra half quart will cool pretty quickly in an uninsulated pot.

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