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Nastynate65 01-23-2013 07:19 PM

Help With Mash Schedule & Boil Time - First All-Grain
 
Hey everyone, first time doing an all grain beer. This one just arrived at the local beer kit shop, the one that I bought:

http://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/v/vsp...20robinson.pdf

I couldn't help but wonder, what it means by "Sacch' Rest: 149 F for 75 Minutes"

I thought this means to heat the water (approx. 2 gal.) to 149 F, then steep the wheat grains in it for 75 Minutes at that temperature. After looking around John Palmer's "How to Brew", I feel as though I've got the wrong idea. Additionally, the store owner told me his opinion was that the Mash Schedule was a part of the Boil Time (I don't think that's right at all).

Any advice on how to proceed? I haven't done anything yet, but would appreciate someone's interpretation of these instructions. Additionally, does the wort have to be boiled for 90 minutes? I thought the boiling time should never exceed 60 minutes.

Thanks!

Yooper 01-23-2013 07:21 PM

I can't open that file via that link, so I'm not sure how much water to tell you to use (it depends on the recipe).

but generally, the "strike water" temperature needs to be higher than the "saccrification rest" temperature. For my system, I need to preheat my mashtun, and then use water that is 11 degrees higher than my desired mash temperature (the "saccrification rest").

149 is a low mash temp, so I'm assuming this is a light, thin bodied beer. I'd probably go a little higher, just in case the temperature is missed by alot. It's easy to add an ice cube to the mash to cool it a bit, but it's harder to warm it up if it's at 145!

solbes 01-23-2013 07:28 PM

The Saccharification Rest is where you will create usable sugars by enzymes in the malt. You are not steeping (where there typically are no enzymes), but rather mashing using the enzymes found in 2 row, pilsner, vienna, etc. Steeping usually involves leeching out crystalized sugars found in kilned malt like crystal, roasted barley, etc.

Anyway, you are almost correct. But you will need to account for the loss in temperature of your strike water from contacting the relatively cool malt. So for me, I heat to ~ 163F to get to my 151F mash temps (sacch rest). Then you try your very best to hold those temps for 75 minutes. There are calculators out there to determine how warm your strike water needs to be (based on grain weight, grain temp, and amount water added). Here's one I use quite often:

http://www.brewheads.com/strike.php

Your store owner is way off. The 75 minute mash to convert the sugars has nothing to do with the boil (usually 60-90 minutes). You also typically have a mash out step and sometimes a sparging step in between mash and boil. The mashout is where you heat the grain and wort to 170F to stop enzymatic activity and help with "rinsing off the sugars". The sparge is the rinse where you try to get as much sugar out of the grain as possible (many different methods).

For the most part, a 60 minute boil is sufficient. But for the lightest color malts like Pilsner malt, a 90 minute boil is desired to remove DMS which tastes like canned corn. Also do not boil with a cover on for the same reasons.

Nastynate65 01-23-2013 07:29 PM

Sorry about that. The recipe kit is here:

http://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/Wheat...feys-wheat.htm

By scrolling down, there is a link to the PDF in the description.

It doesn't say how much to use, but from what I've gathered on these forums, it's 1.25 quarts / lbs. of grain (the kit contains 7.44 lbs. of grain, so about 9.29 quarts of water would be necessary). To me, that means 8 to 9 liters (approx. 2-3 gal.).

So then, I should want to heat the water to 145-155 F, then AFTER it has steeped for... a magical # of minutes, let it "rest" at 149ish for 75 more minutes?

Tupperwolf 01-23-2013 07:30 PM

Looking at the recipe, this is meant to be a light colored sessionable beer. Good advice from Yooper about the temp.

I am totally new to this as well but I figured I would reply. You need to heat the strike water up so that when you add the room-temperature grist it stabilizes at the desired temperature. I plugged in the numbers in this calculator and it suggests 163.5* for the strike water. You may have to adjust that depending on if your mash tun is preheated or for some other variable that's yet to be seen.

http://brewheads.com/strike.php

Nastynate65 01-23-2013 07:50 PM

I think I'm getting this now.

Heat the water above the designated temp. (in this case, Sacch Rest at 149 F) for 75 minutes. Thanks for doing the calculation there, I was messing with the calculator a bit over units. This increase in temperature is to account for the addition of the grains/solids; which will lower the temperature of the medium (water) once added.

Hold this temperature range as closely as you can (stove top with a chili pot; this will be fun) for that 75 min. After this is done, the grains will need to be filtered (I've seen scenarios, solbes, where the grains are rinsed again with the wort in order to get as much sugars as possible from them).

The wort must then be boiled for 60 minutes (or 90 in this case to remove excess DMS) so enzyme activity can be stopped. Wort is then cooled (ice bath in my case); it and more water are added to primary and yeast is pitched.

Right?

solbes 01-23-2013 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nastynate65 (Post 4817641)
So then, I should want to heat the water to 145-155 F, then AFTER it has steeped for... a magical # of minutes, let it "rest" at 149ish for 75 more minutes?

Again, you are not steeping you are mashing. No steeping involved with this recipe.

Think of the "rest" temperature as the target temp you want your water and grain to be. If you want the wort and grain to be at 149F, you need to have ~160-162F water that mixes with the ~ 65F grain. Use the calculator that is referenced above to see if the 160-162F water temp is in the ballpark.

solbes 01-23-2013 07:54 PM

Pretty much have it right now. Only thing I might add is usually all grain is done with full volume boils. If your brew pot is in the 2-3 gallon range and you have a 5 gallon recipe, you are stuck with a partial boil with make up water added to primary. It will work for now, but you might want to check out some 10-15 gallon brew kettles as you move on with your skills :)

Nashbrewer 01-23-2013 07:56 PM

Lots of good answers.

Yooper 01-23-2013 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nastynate65 (Post 4817740)
I think I'm getting this now.

Heat the water above the designated temp. (in this case, Sacch Rest at 149 F) for 75 minutes. Thanks for doing the calculation there, I was messing with the calculator a bit over units. This increase in temperature is to account for the addition of the grains/solids; which will lower the temperature of the medium (water) once added.

Hold this temperature range as closely as you can (stove top with a chili pot; this will be fun) for that 75 min. After this is done, the grains will need to be filtered (I've seen scenarios, solbes, where the grains are rinsed again with the wort in order to get as much sugars as possible from them).

The wort must then be boiled for 60 minutes (or 90 in this case to remove excess DMS) so enzyme activity can be stopped. Wort is then cooled (ice bath in my case); it and more water are added to primary and yeast is pitched.

Right?

Yep, you've pretty much got it!

A couple of tips:

-if your pot will fit in your oven, preheat the oven while you mash in (add the grain to the water). Then turn the oven OFF, and put your pot in there for 75 minutes.

- Consider using a grainbag to hold the grain. Well, not "consider"- you really need a way to separate the grain and the liquid. Since it's 7 pounds of grain or so, I recommend using a couple of 5 gallon "paint strainer" bags. Or a very very big bag to line your pot with first, and then stir in the grain. You need the grain to be "loose" in the bag, so that you can thoroughly stir and the grain is thoroughly wetted, and not packed in there so you may need more than one bag, tied very loosely at the top so the grain can be stirred in the pot. I used to do partial mashes in my bottling bucket, liked with a super large mesh bag, and that worked great to separate the grain from the wort.

You can get buy with a 60 minute boil after that.


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