Help formulating Coffee IPA
I remember my first encounter with the idea of coffee beer from the Drew Carey Show and I've always wondered what it would taste like.
Fast forward to to about 6 weeks ago and I sampled a flight from the Bruery in collaboration with Portola Coffee Lab. The flight had a red ale base and different coffee blends/brewing methods.
Then last week I had Aleman/Two Brothers/Stone Dayman Collaboration and I thought this would be a great time to brew my version of "Buzz Beer" as a nice Coffee IPA.
The Dayman was a little too strong in the bitter, burnt, astringent character in my opinion. I feel that this may have resulted from the method of brewing the coffee at high temperatures (i could be wrong).
My solution to this part is cold brewing the grounds to maintain a smooth finish but keeping the robust coffee flavor. Overall the beer was OK cold out of the fridge (i really liked the citra hop & coffee combo), but the burnt/stale coffee taste really came too far forward with just a little warming.
This is going to be my first "full" BIAB attempt up from extracts with specialty grains and my first attempt on playing with recipes, so I could definitely use some help in the recipe formulation department.
After watching the Dayman Coffee IPA video from their website I found out the following information on what was used:
Can anyone help me with this project? I'd like to brew it in a few weeks when my carboys start freeing up.
Any idea on how much of each of these ingredients I should use and suggested hop schedule?
I like the citrus/grapefruit forwardness and malt backbone that exists. Maybe could use a bit of caramel sweetness? What say you?
Thanks in advance, any and all feedback is appreciated :mug:
I just brewed a coffee stout and have had a few discussions on here about coffee techniques. First, grain bill.
First off, I have never had this beer so I am just going to go with what I know about the ingredients and you can hopefully use that to formulate your take on this. When I use maris otter with 2 row I typically use a 50/50 mix but you can do anything with it. Maris is a great grain, its sweeter than standard 2-row and has a more nuttier, maltier taste than just straight 2 row. The acidulated malt is really just used to lower mash ph, although it can start to add a tart flavor when you start to use higher amounts of it in the mash. From what I know about this beer they are not adding cascade to the mash, they are using crystal 40 as their specialty malt. Mitch Steele, the head brewer of Stone preaches not to use more than 5% of specialty malts in IPA's but this is not his recipe. I would say to use about 5-7% of it. If you go higher, you will get a really sweet beer with the addition of maris and that high of specialty grain.
I bet they are going with a 50/50 combo of Citra and Cascade but thats just a guess and based on my own coffee in beer experiments, I would add freshly ground (coarse) coffee to the secondary along with the dry hop. You can do the cold extraction method and add that to the last 5 minutes of the boil but, from what I know, you going to get a better / cleaner flavor by going to secondary with it.
Just my $.02
Yeah, that was my mistake on the cascade under the grains. Should have been crystal.
Thanks for the advice and sharing the information!:rockin:
I'm going to start playing with numbers and post what I come up with for further review
Here's What I came up with on Beer Calculus. Along with the information posted above, I used an article from serious eats on basic Imperial IPA recipe formulation along with an article i found by Vinnie Cilurzo himself on how to build a IIPA:
To make things easier:
7 lb 4 oz English Maris Otter
7 lb 4 oz Briess 2 row malt
1 lb 4 oz Americal Crystal 10L
12 oz Acidulated Malt
8 oz Dextrose
Mash @ 152*F
60 min 1.25 oz Casdade Pellet
60 min 1.25 oz Citra Pellet
30 min 0.75 oz Cascade Pellet
30 min 1.0 oz Citra Pellet
05 min 1.0 oz Cascade Pellet
05 min 1.75 oz Citra Pellet
Dryhop 6 oz Citra Pellet
Yeast: Wyeast 1056
Ferment @ 66-68
Adjuncts: 3 oz cold brewed coffee @ bottling
Beer Calculus give this:
SRM: 11 (copper to Red/Lt Brown)
Mash Efficiency: 75%
I think I landed right about where I wanted to be in terms of malt/bitterness too
Ok, three things here. Please don't take this as set it stone, just as what I have learned with IPAs and coffee in general.
One, that mash temps going to give you a sweet wort which is going to interfere with your hop profile. I like to mash at 148 for 90-120 minutes (I go 120min). This will give you a drier beer which will allow the hops to really shine. So I would say that if you want a sweet beer, mash at your temp. If you want a drier beer, mash at 148.
Two, your take on this is going to be a tad bitter, but not bad at all. I typically shoot for about 50% of my overall IBU's in bitterness and the other 50% in late additions. Right now, you have about 36 of your 63 IBU's in your bitterness. This is fine, but I would drop it just a tad. Go with your tastes. Also, move that 30 minute addition to 20 minutes and try to up that 5 min addition a bit to add more flavor and aroma.
Lastly, dont add that much coffee. I used 4oz in a stout and it completely took over the beer. All you could taste was coffee. It was so strong that I had to age it on oak to try to hide some of that flavor. I would suggest about 2 oz. I added mine to the last 5 minutes of the boil so you might get a different taste adding it where you want. I have to say something though as I was really bummed on how strong the coffee flavor was from 4 oz.
On the dry hop, are you doing a double dry hop where you add the 5 oz for 5 days then remove and add the 1 oz for another 5 days? If so, nice move! Its more work but your going to love what it does. Even those out to 3 oz each though. Glad to see a shorter dry hop time. A lot of guys go 7 days, I go 3-4 days to avoid off flavors.
Heres a podcast from beersmith.com that has Mitch Steele talking about IPA's and his new book about them. I learned a lot from it and it might give you some ideas. Its all just personal taste. Some like their IPA's maltier, I like them drier. The sweetness of a high mash might complement the coffee taste that you are going to add, kinda like adding sugar to a cup of coffee.
Look into adding the beans in secondary. That is what they did on this beer from listening to the youtube video. You can see them putting whole beans in the fermentor for the secondary addition.
I also went middle of the road with the mash temp down to 150*F as I want it sweet but not too sweet. Lastly, I left the coffee addition alone too since I'm shooting for less coffee acidity and smoother coffee flavor.
I know I probably should make such a hard comparison to the commercial product as I'm not really looking for an exact clone but since I'll be using it as a baseline for the numbers:
I wound up with an IBU of 54.8, the Dayman Collaboration is 42. Does that 12.8 point increase translate proportionately taste wise?
How do I get this thread moved to the recipes section? I think this thread belongs there instead...
Well its all personal taste and this is hard because I have never had the beer your targeting. I do think that your IBU will be a bit different as it will certainly be a tad more hoppy. BJCP guidelines put a Pale Ale IBU's at 30 - 45, and an IPA around 40 - 70, so the Dayman's 42 IBU's is really a hoppy Pale Ale or a mild IPA. So I would put it like this, If you want that coffee to really shine maybe stick to around 40 - 45 +/-, if you want the hops to kinda come forward a bit more then stick with the 54 +/- IBU's. Again, I am really assuming here so I am really sorry if I am giving you bad advice.
What I can tell you for sure is take good notes and just brew. Once you taste it you will know what to adjust and how to improve it. Please keep us posted as I am really interested in how you are going to handle the coffee addition and what your results are going to be.
One more thing, I am curious why you are going to add the coffee at bottling instead of in the secondary. I have to really caution you that I used the cold extraction method (although I used it late in the boil, you are not) in a dark stout and it dominated the beer. Just be aware of that. Once you add it, it will not really age out. I have heard (on another coffee thread I have been talking on) that the best way to do the coffee addition is to add whole beans directly to the secondary, effectively dry hopping with the coffee. That is what they did on the Dayman beer and I really suggest that you do your addition that way. I would hate to see you have the same issue as me considering your adding almost the same amount. Just FYI, the stout I am referring to was an Double Oatmeal Stout at 1.077 hopped to 43 IBU's. Try writting stones brewers and asking them how the coffee was handled and how much was added. Some breweries are pretty good about responding back to homebrewers.
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