Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Help with BIAB technique
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-03-2011, 04:46 AM   #1
hcaz999
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10
Default Help with BIAB technique

Ive done three batches with the BIAB method, and I tend to come up a little short on the SG readings (up to 11 points off)... I was wondering if any BIABers could help me out with improving my efficiency?

__________________
hcaz999 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2011, 05:03 AM   #2
Golddiggie
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Golddiggie's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Between here and there, and everywhere
Posts: 12,058
Liked 480 Times on 421 Posts
Likes Given: 266

Default

Batch size? Pot sizes? Grain amounts? Need details if we're going to spot any areas where you can improve things... What efficiency level are you getting?

__________________
Hopping Tango Brewery

跟猴子比丟屎 ・ Gun HOE-tze bee DIO-se

On Tap: Caramel Ale, Mocha Porter II, MO SMaSH IPA
Waiting/Carbonating: 12.5% Wee Honey II, 8.9% Old Ale, English Brown Ale, Lickah ESB, Mocha Porter II
Fermenting
K1:
K2: Epic mead
K3: TripSix
On Deck: Caramel Ale
Aging:mead
Mead [bottled]:Oaked Wildflower Traditional, Mocha Madness, Blackberry Melomel, maple wine
Golddiggie is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2011, 05:10 AM   #3
hcaz999
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10
Default

This past batch was a dark wheat beer. Using beerformulator.com i got that my SG sould be 55, and I got only 44. I use a 10 gallon pot.

Batch size: 5 gals
Total Water: 7.8 gal

Pale Malt 2-Row (Muntons) 5lbs
German Wheat Malt 5lbs
Black Patent 1/2 oz
Crystal (60L) 4oz
mash for 80 mins at 150F-153F, mash out for 10 mins

I thought maybe I was using to much water?

__________________
hcaz999 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2011, 05:18 AM   #4
Golddiggie
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Golddiggie's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Between here and there, and everywhere
Posts: 12,058
Liked 480 Times on 421 Posts
Likes Given: 266

Default

Sparge??

I used a 32 and 20 quart pot for most of my BIAB batches... Mash in the 32 quart with 1.5-2qt/# of grain, then sparged in the other with the balance of the water. Combine both into the 32 quart get to a boil and continue as normal. Got 78-82% efficiency there.

Never used wheat malt before, so not sure if you need to do any different steps there. I've been using UK 2 Row malts (MO, GP, Baird's Pale Ale)...

Last batch that came close to your amount of grain was 10# (exactly) where my OG was 1.054, with a 79% efficency. I mashed with 2qt/# and spared with 2-3/4 gallons... Before that I used 11# grain (10# 2 Row, 1# crystal malts) and hit 81% for an OG of 1.064...

If you're not sparging, at all, that could be the issue. Get a second pot, or if your current pot has a ball valve installed, run off the mash wort and sparge. I usually sparge for anywhere from 10-30 minutes, depending on the recipe and a few other items... 10-15 minutes is probably plenty. DO make sure you fully drain the bag when you remove it. Otherwise, you're tossing away good wort.

Ran your recipe through Beer Smith... Looks like you're getting 57% efficiency there... That's just not right... At 75% you would have hit an OG of 1.058. Even at 70% you would have hit 1.054 (about where your target was)...

I mash for 90 minutes, just for reference... I also try to keep my temps within 1-2F of my target. At least for the first hour. My last recipe I did BIAB I mashed at 152-154 for 90 minutes, with a temp of 150 at the end of the mash...

Are you getting ALL the doughballs out of the grain bag?
What do you do when adding the grain?
I've found that if you put in ~1/2 the grain, mix it in, then add the balance, mixing it in to remove all clumping/doughballs, you'll get better results... I also stir the mash 2-3 times after getting the clumps out, checking the temp each time.

__________________
Hopping Tango Brewery

跟猴子比丟屎 ・ Gun HOE-tze bee DIO-se

On Tap: Caramel Ale, Mocha Porter II, MO SMaSH IPA
Waiting/Carbonating: 12.5% Wee Honey II, 8.9% Old Ale, English Brown Ale, Lickah ESB, Mocha Porter II
Fermenting
K1:
K2: Epic mead
K3: TripSix
On Deck: Caramel Ale
Aging:mead
Mead [bottled]:Oaked Wildflower Traditional, Mocha Madness, Blackberry Melomel, maple wine
Golddiggie is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2011, 05:37 AM   #5
hcaz999
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10
Default

I do have a second pot and I've been thinking about using it (i think I remember a post on here about a 2 pot all grain method. I was under the impression (and ive seen from a couple posts here and videos on youtube) that sparging wasnt used.

I put in maybe .5-1 lbs of grain and stir it up to avoid doughballs...I stir every 15-20 minutes and I still am pretty new to AG but I dont think I see any doughballs.

One thing that I still have trouble with is keeping a constant temperature on my mash (this one started around 156F and dropped to about 146-148F over the course of the 90 minutes)

Do you think maybe the starting water volume is a little to much, and in essence diluting the wort?

__________________
hcaz999 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2011, 05:56 AM   #6
Golddiggie
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Golddiggie's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Between here and there, and everywhere
Posts: 12,058
Liked 480 Times on 421 Posts
Likes Given: 266

Default

I wouldn't mash with more than 2qt/# of grain... Use the second pot to sparge with.

I would also look to insulate your main pot. Either with high temp tolerant insulation wrap, a sleeping bag, heavy towels (top and sides) and/or a pillow on top (have heard it works really well). I wrapped my aluminum kettle in reflective insulation, which helps keep the heat inside the kettle. I also put a heavy towel on top. IF you're really careful, you can apply a small amount of heat to the kettle to help keep the temperature where it needs to be.

Dropping about 10F over 90 minutes is not good. You need to get that under control ASAP. Depending on the grain temp, air temp, you'll need to set the mash strike water temp to the right starting point.

I would use Beer Smith to figure things out. I've had excellent results using it so far.

I think you're just mashing with tons of water, that is all over the place for temps, so you're not getting a good mash. Try the "Single Infustion, XXXX body, No Mash Out" or "Single Infusion, XXXX Body, Batch Sparge" mash profile next.

With BIAB, you should be able to hit at least 70% efficiency... Of course, assuming your grain has a decent crush on it... Do you mill your own, or does the place you buy it from mill it? What is the mill set to for a gap? I was getting mine from a supplier that uses a gap of .039"... My Barley Crusher (used for the first time last Saturday) has the same gap on it... Getting over 70% efficiency every time that way.

__________________
Hopping Tango Brewery

跟猴子比丟屎 ・ Gun HOE-tze bee DIO-se

On Tap: Caramel Ale, Mocha Porter II, MO SMaSH IPA
Waiting/Carbonating: 12.5% Wee Honey II, 8.9% Old Ale, English Brown Ale, Lickah ESB, Mocha Porter II
Fermenting
K1:
K2: Epic mead
K3: TripSix
On Deck: Caramel Ale
Aging:mead
Mead [bottled]:Oaked Wildflower Traditional, Mocha Madness, Blackberry Melomel, maple wine
Golddiggie is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2011, 06:05 AM   #7
ahansler
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Vista, CA
Posts: 66
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

One way to increase your efficiency is to mill your grain finer. If you are having your LHBS mill it, ask them to run it through twice.

A mash out step is also critical in maximizing efficiency. The higher temperature decreases the viscosity of the wort allowing for greater extraction.

There is no need to use multiple pots or do a sparge of any kind with BIAB. On lower gravity beers (1.050 and under), I routinely get 75-85% efficiency. Beers 1.050 to 1.060 achieve 70-75%. As the gravity starts exceeding 1.060 efficiency really starts to suffer.

__________________
ahansler is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2011, 06:11 AM   #8
kable
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 105
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Your water may be a bit high. I usually do batch size + boil off + (.1 or .06 * grain bill). So in your case it would be more like 7gal.

How big is your bag, can your kettle fit inside your bag?

Do you slowly bring your temps up and mash out? I don't sparge, but raising the temp on your way out will loosen up the sugars. I don't squeeze the bag just because I seem to be getting enough efficiency without having too.

Maybe once you can keep your temps locked in you will get better output. Can you turn the flame on to help out?

__________________
kable is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2011, 06:14 AM   #9
hcaz999
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10
Default

as far as the grain crush is concerned, i asked the LHBS to run it through twice to get a finer crush.

how long do you usually mash out for? I've been doing 10 minutes then leaving the grain above my pot to drain then squeezing whats left into a bowl or something and putting that wort back into the boil kettle.

__________________
hcaz999 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-03-2011, 06:23 AM   #10
Golddiggie
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Golddiggie's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Between here and there, and everywhere
Posts: 12,058
Liked 480 Times on 421 Posts
Likes Given: 266

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahansler View Post
There is no need to use multiple pots or do a sparge of any kind with BIAB. On lower gravity beers (1.050 and under), I routinely get 75-85% efficiency. Beers 1.050 to 1.060 achieve 70-75%. As the gravity starts exceeding 1.060 efficiency really starts to suffer.
That's pretty funny since I hit 82% on a brew with an OG of 1.072.
We hit 72% on a mutant mash process for a 10 gallon batch with an OG of 1.065 (this past Saturday).
I hit 79% on a brew with an OG of 1.054.
81% on a brew with an OG of 1.064.

I hit better efficiency when I had my water:grain ratio at 1.5-2qt/#. It all depended on how much grain I was using. I would mash with as much as I could, within my 32 quart pot, and make sure I could sparge in the 20 quart pot... Over 75% efficiency every time. I haven't brewed anything with an OG under 1.050, well, ever...

I don't think you NEED to double crush your grain, as long as the crush is good the first time. If it's NOT good, and they won't adjust the mill, then yes, have them run it through again to hopefully get a better crush of the grain.

I see this as one of the reasons so many all grain brewers get their own mill. You're no longer at the mercy of the LHBS, or online vendor. YOU get to set the crush to what works best for your system. If you don't get good results, then you figure out what to adjust until you do. Be that mash/sparge, crush size, mash time and temp, etc...
__________________
Hopping Tango Brewery

跟猴子比丟屎 ・ Gun HOE-tze bee DIO-se

On Tap: Caramel Ale, Mocha Porter II, MO SMaSH IPA
Waiting/Carbonating: 12.5% Wee Honey II, 8.9% Old Ale, English Brown Ale, Lickah ESB, Mocha Porter II
Fermenting
K1:
K2: Epic mead
K3: TripSix
On Deck: Caramel Ale
Aging:mead
Mead [bottled]:Oaked Wildflower Traditional, Mocha Madness, Blackberry Melomel, maple wine
Golddiggie is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My First BIAB jakecpunut All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 11 03-03-2014 06:36 PM
Biab jlag BIAB Brewing 36 01-31-2013 09:09 PM
A nice Podcast on BIAB from one of the Pioneers of BIAB gunner65 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 0 02-26-2011 01:24 AM
Does this BIAB technique make sense? gio All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 20 01-31-2011 08:47 PM
Biab Teufelhunden All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 3 08-28-2010 02:59 AM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS