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-   -   Head Spinning: Fly Sparge, Batch Sparge, Hybrid Fly Sparge (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/head-spinning-fly-sparge-batch-sparge-hybrid-fly-sparge-161229/)

williamgardner 02-04-2010 07:02 PM

Head Spinning: Fly Sparge, Batch Sparge, Hybrid Fly Sparge
 
Hello All,

I've been reading all this Batch Sparge, Fly sparge, Hybrid Sparge talk in all kinds of Homebrew Forums...and wow....

I have Batch Sparged (5 Brews) and have had decent success. Like another thread here I want to try Fly Sparging due to curiousity and see how it works. (Plus I just built a nifty Sparge Arm for my Coleman Extreme 70Qt MT)

My problem is also with the Mash Out portion of the Fly Sparging Procedure.
My idea is to Mash In, Mash Out, Vourlauf, then drain the MT slowly into the brew pot. Once there is 2-3" of water over the grain bed, start the fly sparging.

By the time the grain bed has 2-3" of water on top of if, there should be a good established grain bed and the addition of the "fresh" hot sparge water will force the bottom wort out the sparge manifold. Making sure to have equal parts coming out and going in.

Does anyone see any glaring problems with this? I know people will say just Batch sparge and I hear ya! Will prob end up doing that in the future...but we are Homebrewers...its in our DNA to experiment.....

OLDBREW 02-04-2010 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamgardner (Post 1861060)
Hello All,

I've been reading all this Batch Sparge, Fly sparge, Hybrid Sparge talk in all kinds of Homebrew Forums...and wow....

I have Batch Sparged (5 Brews) and have had decent success. Like another thread here I want to try Fly Sparging due to curiousity and see how it works. (Plus I just built a nifty Sparge Arm for my Coleman Extreme 70Qt MT)

My problem is also with the Mash Out portion of the Fly Sparging Procedure.
My idea is to Mash In, Mash Out, Vourlauf, then drain the MT slowly into the brew pot. Once there is 2-3" of water over the grain bed, start the fly sparging.

By the time the grain bed has 2-3" of water on top of if, there should be a good established grain bed and the addition of the "fresh" hot sparge water will force the bottom wort out the sparge manifold. Making sure to have equal parts coming out and going in.

Does anyone see any glaring problems with this? I know people will say just Batch sparge and I hear ya! Will prob end up doing that in the future...but we are Homebrewers...its in our DNA to experiment.....

The one thing that will kill your efficiency with fly sparging in a cooler is not having a proper manifold to allow full rinsing of the entire grainbed.
If you are using a SS braid in the bottom of your cooler you will not rinse all the grains completely.

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/lib....4/palmer.html

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/lib...lmer_figs.html

ajf 02-04-2010 11:18 PM

As Oldbrew said, a good manifold that covers the whole of the bottom of the MLT is necessary for a fly sparge.
Couple of other things.
Your 70Qt cooler may not give enough grain bed depth for a successful fly sparge. (The deeper the grain bed, the better the sparge).
After mashing out, don't drain. Vorlauf, and then start sparging. The mash out raises the grain bed temperature, and adding the sparge water should keep it at the same temperature. If you drain, and then add sparge water, you stand a good chance of compacting the grain bed, and you will lose the temperature benefits of the mash out.

-a.

williamgardner 02-05-2010 12:37 AM

Thanks guys...we will be doing a 10 gallon DIPA so the grain bed will be pretty high and the water level will be about to the top after mashout. I think we will have to let it drain a little before we start the sparge water. I have a cvpc manifold that has two vertical channels and 4 cross sections. Slits ever 1/4" or so and i was especially careful in my sizing as not to have channeling. Any additional thoughts with this additional info?

wilserbrewer 02-05-2010 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamgardner (Post 1861895)
Any additional thoughts...

Just MO, but I think a 70qt rectangular cooler is better served batch sparging. A large rectangular manifold will pull a disproportionate sp? amount of runoff near the drain. But of course...YMMV:mug:

ajf 02-05-2010 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamgardner (Post 1861895)
Thanks guys...we will be doing a 10 gallon DIPA so the grain bed will be pretty high and the water level will be about to the top after mashout. I think we will have to let it drain a little before we start the sparge water. I have a cvpc manifold that has two vertical channels and 4 cross sections. Slits ever 1/4" or so and i was especially careful in my sizing as not to have channeling. Any additional thoughts with this additional info?

That sounds good. I always think of medium gravity 5g batches. :)
No problem with draining a bit before starting the sparge, but don't let it run dry.

-a.

Displaced MassHole 02-05-2010 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamgardner (Post 1861060)



My problem is also with the Mash Out portion of the Fly Sparging Procedure.
My idea is to Mash In, Mash Out, Vourlauf, then drain the MT slowly into the brew pot. Once there is 2-3" of water over the grain bed, start the fly sparging.

By the time the grain bed has 2-3" of water on top of if, there should be a good established grain bed and the addition of the "fresh" hot sparge water will force the bottom wort out the sparge manifold. Making sure to have equal parts coming out and going in.


You just gave the text book definition of Fly Sparging. With the grainbill of a IIPA and your description of the manifold you should have no problems at all with a fly sparge. Just do it as slowly as possible to allow for maximum rinsing.

:mug:
DM

williamgardner 02-05-2010 12:20 PM

Thanks Guys!!! I will let you know how it turns out... What a wonderful message board we have here!!!

OLDBREW 02-05-2010 12:42 PM

I don't know if you have ever tried step mashing in a cooler before, but if you are going to do a single infusion, then step up to mashout temp before the sparge, make sure you have some extra boiling water nearby. The coolers tend to absorb the heat, so if you use a calculator it may not get you up to where you want to go.

The other thing is how are you keeping your sparge water at temp through the sparge? You need either another cooler or something to hold the sparge water temp up so the grainbed stays between 165 -168*

Also as the sparge water leaves the hlt then goes through your new sparge arm, you will see a temperature drop. Your sparge water needs to be adjusted so the grainbed temp doesn't fall.

Some HLT water will be at 185*F and the grainbed will be at 165*. Where you brew, what type of tubing, and how far the transfer distance is, will vary the outcome. Usually takes a few times brewing with the equipment to dial it in

williamgardner 02-05-2010 12:49 PM

We have another cooler with a valve and hose assembly which hooks up directly to our sparge arm. But you do raise a question. Do we need to keep the cooler lid on when we fly? I have built it so we can keep it closed and still monitor the level of water inside but is it necessary to keep it on since the sparge water will be a constant temp and continuously running into the MT?


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