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Old 12-12-2012, 02:44 PM   #21
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You keep find ways to avoid the challenge. Someone wanna set something up that's completely blind and fair? I'm down.
Again, you ARE 15 aren't you. You still feel you have to "prove" something, rather than saying you ventured an OPINION.....

I already "proved" it to myself everytime I enter a contest with judges in town, and then I SHARE the information, for folks to try it for THEMSELVES, then they can make an INFORMED OPINION, not just repeat and defend something rotely, without any practical experience doing it.

As fun as you might think this is, trying to show who's got a bigger brewing penis, I'm going to get back to answering folk's brewing questions, from my experiences.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:46 PM   #22
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Knock it off. Now. This is not a debate, and it's not the place for back and forth disagreements. You've all said what you've said. And you won't change either others' minds so let it go. No more.

Now, back on topic-

I'm firmly in the "do a smaller full boil batch" camp. I agree that hops utilization isn't a factor, exactly, except that boiling 2.5 gallons and then adding 2.5 gallons of water does lower the IBUs. (Say, 80 IBUs of wort, and then adding 2.5 gallons of 0 IBU water, that equals 40 IBUs in 5 gallons). That's fine if it's built into the recipe, but it makes it hard to get the "right" bittering for the biggest IPAs.

For many beers, it doesn't matter, but I"d rather have a nice all-boiled 3 gallon batch, especially if you don't have a fermenter big enough for 5 gallons anyway!

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Old 12-12-2012, 02:46 PM   #23
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OK fine. I'll happily (at no charge) take a six-pack of beer from each of you and judge the pissing...er, brewing contest. The sacrifices I make for homebrew...

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Old 12-12-2012, 02:47 PM   #24
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I still stand by my assertion that a partial volume boil with a significant amount of top off water vs. a full volume boil with no top off water, of otherwise the same recipe, will result in an inferior beer.

That is common sense, and fact in my experience... maybe not yours, either for the sake of personal pride, to argumentatively try to prove someone wrong, an off palate with less emphasis on quality, or reinforcement of the insignificant brewing medals you own. Who knows? Either way, I'm not trying to one-up you or be defensive for the sake of being defensive. You asked for it. I am simply offering my firm belief in full volume boils as it pertains to achieving the best quality beer you can brew. Even Yooper agrees and she likes you more than me I'll stop now because she asked us to.

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Old 12-12-2012, 02:59 PM   #25
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Personally, given the effort it takes to make a batch, I do a partial boil and dilute. I don't aim for anything over 35 IBU or so, so the difficulties of hitting high bitterness levels don't come up. I'd rather schedule half as many brew days.

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That is common sense
It's one theory. For a properly constructed recipe, it's not at all obvious that the fact that not all the water was boiled will have any impact on the results.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:10 PM   #26
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I would ignore the full vs partial boil debate and decide based on how much beer you want to drink and what your schedule is like. I always do partial boils because 5+ gal full boils are tough for apartment brewing and i want to get the most beer possible out of my brew day.

The fact of the matter is that you won't be doing a partial/full boil blind taste test with this beer and you're very unlikely to notice a difference in quality without it so don't decide based on that.

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Old 12-12-2012, 03:13 PM   #27
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Here's a question. How is it common sense that partial boils would make inferior beer? In what way does diluting a solution reduce the quality? Especially if it is accounted for in the recipe. Working in a lab, almost every single solution we use is made or purchased at concentrations much higher than the working concentration, sometimes thousands of times higher. If diluting a solution in exacting scientific research, where a single microliter can make a difference in success or failure, is everyday practice, what difference is it going to make in home brewing beer on a scale of gallons?

Just my .02
I don't think it's "inferior" exactly, and for many beers it may not even be noticeable. However, there are more maillard reactions in a smaller (but higher SG) wort, so you may get some of those flavors. That happens to be great in some beers- like a Scottish where it's done intentionally- so it's not necessarily "inferior". But in a beer like an IPA or a cream ale where the "texture" is light and crisp, it could be noticeable.

Also, because you can only get a maximum of so many IBUs in wort (only so much can isomerize), it's really hard to get a very high IBU in a partial boil. The maximum is thought to be around +/- 100 IBUs, but even Pliny the Elder tests at only in the 80s. Anyway, the point is, if you have a 75 IBU wort, and you dilute with 50% water, then you'd end up with a 37 IBU beer. Not an issue at all, for lower IBU beers, of course. But for a partial boil, that could be an issue in some cases.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:14 PM   #28
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Thanks for all the opinions in here.

For me, contests aren't a concern right now. So at the moment, if it tastes like beer, it's a blue ribbon to me (As long as it doesn't taste like Pabst Blue Ribbon)

Based on that, and my liking to have more beer rather than less beer, I'll probably go partial boil 5 gallon, and if, for some reason, that comes out cruddy, i'll give a shot to the 3 gallon next time.

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Old 12-12-2012, 03:17 PM   #29
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The fact of the matter is that you won't be doing a partial/full boil blind taste test with this beer
That seems to be true here with refusal of the challenge...

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and you're very unlikely to notice a difference in quality without it so don't decide based on that.
I have done this a couple times in the past (with the same recipe, twin boils) to see the differences (in IPAs), and the comparison of which beer was inferior in quality was very easily identifiable... The partial boil / top off version.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:50 PM   #30
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That seems to be true here with refusal of the challenge...

I have done this a couple times in the past (with the same recipe, twin boils) to see the differences (in IPAs), and the comparison of which beer was inferior in quality was very easily identifiable... The partial boil / top off version.
There are many different levels and types of homebrewers, if your top priority is to have the best beer possible that is great for you but i prefer to balance a few factors (convenience/cost/ quality) with my brews. I don't disagree that full boils are preferable but if you try to do a blind taste test by trying each beer a couple of months apart the difference won't be so clear (and i bet both beers taste awesome).
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