Kegconnection Complete Starter Kit and More Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > First Lager Attempt

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-27-2007, 03:35 PM   #1
UNOmar
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 108
Default First Lager Attempt

Hey All,
My porter tap finally dried up so I plan on brewing again this weekend. (My Hefe is still on tap so I won't be going dry just yet).
I want to try a lager this time now that I have the means. I'm planning an AG Spaten Munich clone (from Clonebrews).
Since I've never lagered before I'm not sure what is really important and what is not. I would like to keep this rather simple for a first attempt.
Is a diacetyl rest necessary? What am I likely to notice?
Should I be stepping down the temp or crash cooling? (according to the forum this is personal preference, I think...)
The recipe doesn't say how long or at what temperature to lager. According to "How to Brew" I should lager at roughly 10 degrees lower than primary fermentation. Is this the standard? How long should I lager at that temp? 2-3 months? More/less?

__________________
UNOmar
UNOmar is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-27-2007, 06:07 PM   #2
jeffg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jeffg's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 282
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

You should do the primary fermentation as close to what the optimum temperature recommended by the yeast manufactuere is, probably in the 50-55 degree range, and then step down for the lagering period to whatever you can steadily keep the temperature at above freezing (I keep my fridge at 39). From what I have read of lagering, if you pitch the yeast at the primary temperature, you do not need a diacetyl rest; if you pitch at room temperature and then move it to the primary temperature after active fermentation, you should do one (this I believe was according to Noonan).

Length of lagering is up to you--I'd probably be drinking it after 6 weeks.

Good luck.

__________________
Primary: nada
Secondary: nada
On Tap: Uncle Willie's Pale Ale; Kolsch
Bottled: Salvator Dopplebock
Up Next: Octoberfest
jeffg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-27-2007, 06:12 PM   #3
UNOmar
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 108
Default

Great!
Thanks for the help jeffg.

__________________
UNOmar
UNOmar is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2007, 12:03 AM   #4
boo boo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hearts's Delight, Newfoundland
Posts: 4,171
Liked 30 Times on 26 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Actually you would need it more if you started and fermented at colder temps than if you did it warm. It may not be nesessary to do a diacetyl rest if you let your primary ferment fully before racking to the clearing/lagering tank.
And it is only some yeasts that throw a lot of diacetyl to begin with.

Now this is my method ( the right way ). LOL.

Pitch a big starter yeast at fermenting temps into properly prepared wort at fermenting temps (usually about 50f). Let brew 2 to 3 weeks and warm up to about 60f until ferment is fully finished. Rack into your carboy and cool to lagering temps (in my case 34f) for 1 to 2 months. Bottle or keg.

__________________

How do you BBQ an elephant....first you get your elephant....

boo boo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2007, 12:10 AM   #5
Bernie Brewer
Grouchy Old Fart
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Bernie Brewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Eldorado, WI
Posts: 7,539
Liked 109 Times on 50 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Lagering is really pretty easy, it just lakes longer. Ferment at around 50F, rest at room temp for a couple/three days, lager at 35-40f for a couple months. Easy Peasy Japaneasy (I've been drinkin)

__________________
I like to squeeze the nickle until the buffalo craps-mt rob

"Why don't we get drunk and screw?" Jimmy Buffett
Bernie Brewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2007, 12:52 PM   #6
jeffg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jeffg's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 282
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boo boo
Actually you would need it more if you started and fermented at colder temps than if you did it warm.
How do you figure?
__________________
Primary: nada
Secondary: nada
On Tap: Uncle Willie's Pale Ale; Kolsch
Bottled: Salvator Dopplebock
Up Next: Octoberfest
jeffg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2007, 01:11 PM   #7
vtfan99
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Williamsburg, Va
Posts: 335
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

The single biggest piece of advice is to make a starter. I generally don't make starters for any of my ales but have found it an absolute necessity for lagers.

__________________
vtfan99 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2007, 11:48 PM   #8
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Baron von BeeGee's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Barony of Fuquay-Varina, NC
Posts: 5,419
Liked 10 Times on 10 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffg
How do you figure?
Diacetyl is a by-product of yeast in an oxygenated environment, i.e., aerobic activity. It can be generated regardless of temperature (as long as the yeast is active). Yeast in a warmer environment are better able to reduce diacetyl into more flavorless compounds and below the threshold of most people's perception...this is the basic theory behind a diacetyl rest. However, even yeast in a cooler environment can reduce diacetyl given a chance.

Why not pitch warm, then? Because you will also generate esters which are not desired in a lager.

Therefore, and to reiterate what boo boo was getting at and to answer the OP's question, a diacetyl rest is not mandatory, but you will want to give the yeast time to reduce it. Reduce the temperature slowly, 1-2 degrees/day, so as not to shock the yeast and it will continue working for you during the lagering phase. Not fermenting for attenuation, but reducing unwanted compounds such as diacetyl.

Also note that diacetyl is desired in some beers, such as Urquell...
__________________
Baron von BeeGee is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-01-2007, 05:23 AM   #9
azmtnbiker
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
azmtnbiker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 108
Default

I have only 3 lagers under my belt but I have only done a d-rest once and that one is still lagering so I cannot tell if there is a difference. I usually let ferment for 3 weeks which seems to clear up everything before I lager. I always pitch at or below ferment temps and everything has come out good so far.
This seems like a long going debate on wether to do a d-rest or not. I am on the fence with it and believe that some yeasts produce more and might benefit more then others. The only lager yeasts I have used is Wyeast 2124 and 2308. It is easy to do a d-rest so if that is what you want to do then do it.

__________________
azmtnbiker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-01-2007, 11:34 AM   #10
dcbrewmeister
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 228
Default

Along the same lines of the Baron's thought - if you ferment a lager at warmer temps (in an attempt not to need to do a D-rest) you are no longer making a lager, but are making a steam beer.

A lager is not so much just the yeast you use, but a process. Ferment at the lower temp ~45-55 degree range, D-rest, lower storage temp (close to freezing) and longer conditioning times. (Not meant as a complete list, just basics)

Pitching and fermenting at a higher temp in the attempt to skip a step is to no longer be making a lager. Lagers are all about the flavors that come from the process and temps, not skipping steps and finding a way around a step you don't want to do and trying to find a way to do it faster... If you need a beer now, make an ale.

A good lager takes time.

Yes a D-rest is needed - if you truly are planning on a lager, otherwise, make an ale. Lager yeast is a slow acting, bottom fermenting yeast.

__________________
dcbrewmeister is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First Attempt to ferment Lager awfltrth Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 6 06-29-2009 12:46 PM
PM Lager Attempt BarnabyHooge All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 01-14-2009 10:37 PM
first attempt coopers pale and lager carlos Extract Brewing 11 03-04-2008 06:30 PM
First lager attempt malkore Recipes/Ingredients 3 02-18-2008 09:56 PM
Ready for first Lager attempt? Don All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 3 04-22-2007 05:15 PM