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Old 09-06-2012, 02:01 PM   #1
barhoc11
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Default First Decoction Mash Questions

I have decided to make a Double Decoction Dunkel Lager and after researching the process I still have questions. If anyone can please review my approach below and give me some help, I would appreciate it. My main concern is getting the correct amount of sugars out of the mash so that I can get to my correct OG.

Step 1: Dough In to hit protein rest @126 F for 35 minutes

Step 2: Decoct 1/3 of mash and heat it up to 147F for 20 minutes, then boil for 10 -15 minutes

Step 3: Add Decoction #1 to mash tun to get temperature up to 147 F (how long does this need to stay at 147 F ??)

Step 4: Decoct a few quarts of the mash and heat up to 156 F for 20 minutes, then boil for 10 -15 minutes

Step 5: Add Decoction #2 to mash tun to get temperature up to 156 F (how long does this need to stay at 156 F ??)

Step 6: Vorleuf and begin first runnings

Step 7: Sparge with water to get to 168 F for 15 - 20 minutes

Step 8: Take final runnings and boil wort like normal

Thanks in advance for the help, this is something I have always wanted to do but I need some approval from someone who has done this before for some reassurance.

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Old 09-06-2012, 04:16 PM   #2
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For Steps 3 & 5, I would mash at 30 minutes each. This was similar to what I did to brew my Oktoberfest back in May except that I did the Kaiser's enhanced double decoction. If your mash tun is not direct fired, make sure your decoction volumes are correct to hit the right temps. Also, be sure to account for evaporation in the decoction volumes so you pull more mash than what you will add back in (the mistake I made).

As with any mash, make sure your grain crush is good and you stir a lot to ensure good extraction.

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Old 09-06-2012, 04:53 PM   #3
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i'd be wary of a 35min protein rest - may cause detrimental effects resting that long with today's malts

have you read up on Kaiser's decoction wiki?
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php...oction_Mashing

i've done the hochkurz double decoction twice and skipped the protein rest completely

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Old 09-06-2012, 04:54 PM   #4
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Thanks for the response, just curious about steps 3 and 5.... are these steps in place of the normal mash I would do for 60 - 90 minutes during a normal batch sparge?

Just to clarify, you are saying to get my decoctions up to 147 and then 155 and hold for around 30 minutes and this will get me the sugar extraction I need?

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Old 09-06-2012, 05:09 PM   #5
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I don't have my notes in front of me, but I agree that with terrapinj that a 35 minute protein rest seems long (unless you are using wheat, rye, etc.).

Steps 3 and 5 are indeed the essential replacement to your normal mash at ~151. Best way to determine that you've fully converted all of your starch is to do the iodine test. Sparging and lautering can also affect your overall efficiency, but if you've converted all your starch, that's what you're going to get.

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Old 09-06-2012, 05:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrapinj View Post
i'd be wary of a 35min protein rest - may cause detrimental effects resting that long with today's malts

have you read up on Kaiser's decoction wiki?
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php...oction_Mashing

i've done the hochkurz double decoction twice and skipped the protein rest completely
So you have done the Hochkurz double decoction and went right to the maltose rest at 140 - 146 *F ?

Would I just need to make sure I hit that temp (140 - 146 *F) when I doughed in then take a decoction and get that up to the 158 - 162 *F range for 30 minutes before boiling?

Once I have boiled my first decoction, I would add that back to the mash to get it up to the 158 - 162 *F range for 30 minutes before boiling.

Another question.... If my recipe says to mash at 155* F, would this matter if I used a decoction mash?

One more question... How do you normally sparge the grain in a decoction mash? Should I have enough sparge water to get me to 168* F ready after the second decoction and my first running, just like when batch sparging?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I do this right.
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:32 PM   #7
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correct

I dough in to settle around 144° - the longer you hold this rest the more fermentable the wort will be, i target about 45-60min - if you want less fermentable to match a 155° then maybe rest for 30min or so but it may be tough to get it done this quickly

the 1st decoction will bring you from maltose rest (140-146) to the dextrination rest (158 - 162) the next decoction will be used to bring you to mash out temps (168ish) then drain and sparge as you normally would

if you have a chance, watch his 3 part youtube videos as well, it goes through the whole process, much easier to watch what is being done then try to visualize from reading only

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Old 09-06-2012, 05:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrapinj View Post
correct

I dough in to settle around 144° - the longer you hold this rest the more fermentable the wort will be, i target about 45-60min - if you want less fermentable to match a 155° then maybe rest for 30min or so but it may be tough to get it done this quickly

the 1st decoction will bring you from maltose rest (140-146) to the dextrination rest (158 - 162) the next decoction will be used to bring you to mash out temps (168ish) then drain and sparge as you normally would

if you have a chance, watch his 3 part youtube videos as well, it goes through the whole process, much easier to watch what is being done then try to visualize from reading only
I tried watching his video's before but they were kind of hard to follow not knowing what I do now. I am going to give them another try and that should help.

Thanks for all the help with this, I can't wait to try it out.
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:22 PM   #9
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give yourself plenty of time, it's a long process but I enjoy it and Love the smell of the boiling mash

i'd either draw more of a decoction than what is calculated or have some boiling water on hand to help you hit your temps when you add the decoction back just in case

mash thin ~2qt/lb and make sure your pH is inline with the proper range

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Old 09-06-2012, 07:53 PM   #10
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I've watched the videos about 3 or four times. He does a great job explaining the process and gives you some calculations. The third time I watched, I kept a pen and paper handy to define my process and what calcs I needed when.

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