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Old 06-19-2008, 12:35 AM   #1
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Default First AG- mash & Boil volume vs hop boil

I finally rounded up an acceptable cooler, braid, fittings and all! Just need my big pot to come in and I am ready for all grain! I am walking through everything in my head and on paper before brew day. I plan on batch sparging.
How many runnings do most brewers do? Is there a good way to tell when to stop, so tannins are not extracted, or is that a function of heat?
What exactly is mashing out, and why would you do it.

So, after mashing, I am going to end up with a large amount (over 5 gallons) in my boil pot. Do I boil, then when I feel target of 5 gallons is 1 hour away, do the 1st hop addition, and complete the rest of the boil as I normally would?

I do have beersmith, but am not all that proficient at using it yet. I can't figure out how to put in batch sparging. I guess If I did that it would give me a boil volume to expect?

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Old 06-19-2008, 01:04 AM   #2
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The Big Charlie P (Can't say his last name, so I won't type it either.) reccomends mashing with 1/4 gallon of mash water per pound and 1/2 gallon per pound to sparge. This is figuring a single infusion (mix water and grain once, no more additional water added during mash) and Batch sparge.


This is a really cool little Java calculator that will help you hit your temps RIGHT ON. Just don't pre-heat your Mash Tun. This counts on your tun being room temp.
http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

Oh...and Tannins are a product of heat...Very much heat....boiling heat.

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Old 06-19-2008, 01:51 AM   #3
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Well, I have most of the mashing procedure down. I have 20+ PM's under my belt now. It is mostly dealing with this volume, figuring out boil off, and efficiency.

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Old 06-19-2008, 02:24 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quickerNu View Post
I finally rounded up an acceptable cooler, braid, fittings and all! Just need my big pot to come in and I am ready for all grain! I am walking through everything in my head and on paper before brew day.
Congrats. It takes longer then extract, but it's well worth it.

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How many runnings do most brewers do?
Two. With two sparges (of approximately equal volume) you will get better efficiency than with one. With three or more batch sparges, you could get very slightly better efficiency, but it will take so much longer, that it isn't worth the trouble.

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Is there a good way to tell when to stop, so tannins are not extracted, or is that a function of heat?
In theory, when the gravity of the runnings drops below 1.010. With one or two batch sparges, this should not normally be an issue.

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IWhat exactly is mashing out, and why would you do it.
A mash out is raising the mash temperature to about 168F, and maintaining that temperature for a period of time (about 10 - 15 minutes).
The original reason for a mash out was to denature the enzymes (stop them from changing the nature of the wort). It also raises the temperature of the mash, reducing the viscosity, and making the sugars more soluble.
When fly sparging, this can help improve efficiency considerably. When batch sparging, using hotter water for the first batch achieves the same purpose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by quickerNu View Post
I do have beersmith, but am not all that proficient at using it yet. I can't figure out how to put in batch sparging. I guess If I did that it would give me a boil volume to expect?
Can't help you there.
I have promash, but I've never used the water usage calculations. I'd worked that out several years before I got promash, and never bothered to set up all the variables.

Hope this helps

-a.
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Old 06-19-2008, 03:03 AM   #5
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Check out Denny's batch sparging page. It will answer many questions you have.

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Old 06-19-2008, 03:43 AM   #6
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Thanks, guys, big help! Never thought grain absorbtion would vary depending on your system- what is the variable there- grainbed depth from the MLT or your crush?
I guess the only major question I have left is what determines preboil volume? do you adjust your water/grain ratio or extend the boil for larger grain bills? My evap rate has been significantly different every time I brew. If I finish with too much wort, my fg will be too low, and if I continue to boil past 1 hr since hop addition, my bittering will be off. Are these just kinda the things I will figure out with time?

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Old 06-19-2008, 04:14 AM   #7
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You will want to have a fairly consistent evaporation rate or you will have trouble getting the desired volume from each batch. After a couple of boils you should have a good idea of what you are losing.
I think grain absobtion varies by crush. You may lose some wort to deadspace in your cooler. You should also have a way to determine how much you get from the first runnings and then you will know what your absorbtion rate is. I would figure at least .13 gallons a pound. It is a good idea to have some extra water on hand as you go through the process.

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Old 06-19-2008, 01:45 PM   #8
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In Beersmith you have to customize your equipment values for the MLT, boil kettle size, evap. rate, expected efficiency, deadspace, expected loss to trub, etc. Then the sparge instructions will come out on the preview Brewsheet tab.

You also have to choose a mash method. I usually go with Single infusion, medium body, no mash out. You can edit the settings in the mash step also.

Hope this helps with the Beersmith stuff.

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Old 06-19-2008, 02:39 PM   #9
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You have to make some assumptions on your first batch or two. Just assume for now that you'll boil off about a gallon per 60 minutes. You might find it to be a little more or less, but take good notes and adjust for next time. No, you don't want to lengthen your boil, just discard any leftovers that don't fit into your fermenter. You shouldn't be off by more than a quart up or down in most cases.

I personally account for a 1.5 gallon boiloff in 75 minutes so I boil for 15, then start my hop schedule. The larger diameter pot you have, the more boils off. Figure on 5.5 in the fermenter + 1 gallon boil off so start with 6.5-6.75 gallons preboil.

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Old 06-20-2008, 04:56 AM   #10
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Cool, now I just have to decide whether or not to wait for the Austin homebrew supply sale to buy my big pot, find a keggle, or just order now. I think I am going to crank out a few batches of edworts bee caves hefe to get everything down. Straightforward recipe, short time from boil to drinking...

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