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Old 01-11-2013, 07:57 PM   #11
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Try and throw an acid rest in there. Pilsner malt will raise the pH of the mash so perhaps that slight increase of the pH is hindering some enzymatic activity.
It's not su much that pils malt raises the pH as that it doesn't lower it as much as darker malts do.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Denny

It's not su much that pils malt raises the pH as that it doesn't lower it as much as darker malts do.
You are right. Sorry for the wording.

Either way, try an acid rest and see what happens. You are already doing a protein rest so mashing in a little lower for the acid rest shouldn't be too big an issue.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:54 PM   #13
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You are right. Sorry for the wording.

Either way, try an acid rest and see what happens. You are already doing a protein rest so mashing in a little lower for the acid rest shouldn't be too big an issue.
I believe he said the pH was checked and was good, so I'm not sure what an acid rest would do for him.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:01 PM   #14
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Probably a dumb question, but is your pils malt undermodified by chance? It's unlikely, but if you somehow got your hands on less modified pils, that could be a factor.

Otherwise, definitely check the crush, make sure it looks good. Maybe crush some of your regular 2-row without changing the mill gap, then crush the pils and see if there's any observable difference in quality.

Also, are you checking your pH with the ColorpHast strips? These threads suggest the strips might read low:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/big-...riment-126033/
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/col...mation-363559/

If your pH is what you think it is, then I don't think an acid rest is needed.

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Old 01-11-2013, 10:44 PM   #15
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I'll give it all a try....Cheers!

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Old 01-11-2013, 11:03 PM   #16
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I'm using Weyerman's pils which I unbderstand to be a well modified pilsener...

The crush and possibly a longer mash seem good places to start. i think the pH and calcium are in the right range.

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Old 01-11-2013, 11:05 PM   #17
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PS This forum is pretty cool....

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Old 01-12-2013, 04:03 AM   #18
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I'm also a huge traditionalist so I still do decoctions and traditional mash steps even though they are not necessarily needed anymore. Hence my recommendation for an acid rest. BUT if all else fails, I say give it a shot. One more thing to rule out.

I live in Germany so if I made a Pils or a Bock without decocting, I'm pretty sure I'd be slapped :-) Gotta love 8 hour brew days

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Old 01-12-2013, 06:37 PM   #19
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I'm using Weyerman's pils which I unbderstand to be a well modified pilsener...
Yeah, Weyermann's standard pils is well modified. They also produce some less modified Boheman pils malts, but I don't think they're so undermodified as to explain the drop in extract efficiency you're observing.

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The crush and possibly a longer mash seem good places to start. i think the pH and calcium are in the right range.
Cool, definitely keep us updated on what you learn!
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:49 PM   #20
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I'm also a huge traditionalist so I still do decoctions and traditional mash steps even though they are not necessarily needed anymore. Hence my recommendation for an acid rest. BUT if all else fails, I say give it a shot. One more thing to rule out.

I live in Germany so if I made a Pils or a Bock without decocting, I'm pretty sure I'd be slapped :-) Gotta love 8 hour brew days
I'm the same way. I decoct all of my German beers with a simplified Hochkurz mash. Not sure if it actually provides a benefit over single infusion, but I enjoy the process, so I do it.
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