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Old 01-12-2010, 05:09 PM   #1
Doc Robinson
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Default DMS...it's freaking DMS, right?

Two very similar grain bills...two very similar tastes. Before, I have described it as "a musty, dirty sock/feet, maybe sulfery, etc." kind of a thing. I was listening to Basic Brewing this morning and Chris Colby of BYO was talking about the need to boil long & hard with Pilsener malt to eradicate DMS. Biermuncher indicated the same thing in a post the other day. The two recipes were:

Biermuncher's Centennial Blonde:

81% Pale Malt (2-row) (2.0 SRM)
7% Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
6% Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM)
6% Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)

My own recipe:

79% Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
8% Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)
13% Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)

People describe the taste as "cooked corn or cabbage". I can see that. I am VERY sensitive to DMS (if that is indeed what I am tasting)...so much so that I dumped the Centennial Blonde.

IS THIS DMS?
...NO, IT'S NOT...IT'S YEAST. SEE MY LATEST POST.

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Old 01-12-2010, 05:12 PM   #2
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Sure you are just not sensitive to a certain type of hops? What hops did you use in both batches? I find Centennial to give a veggie flavor I dislike if not combined with something else - and I did get that taste when I brewed BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde. I sure as hell never dumped it though - it was my taste buds, not the recipe, that had the issue.

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Old 01-12-2010, 05:15 PM   #3
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Man you dump more beer than I change my underwear, don't you EVER try to see if you are not just drinking green beer, by letting some time go by to see if the off flavors actually condition out? Believe it or not, you haven't been brewing all that long, so SOME of the thousands of gallons you have brewed since OCT, may ACTUALLY just be coming online as drinkable to the rest of us brewers.

Sometimes green beer actually mimics those flavors on the off flavor charts, the only difference it, they go away with time.

And as to whether or not it IS DMS, we can't really tell what you're tasting without actually tasting it, we're good but not that good. Everyone's palate is different, and taste is subjective.

But generally speaking if there's pilsner in the grainbill, then I boil for 90 minutes uncovered.

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Old 01-12-2010, 05:30 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
...don't you EVER try to see if you are not just drinking green beer...

...But generally speaking if there's pilsner in the grainbill, then I boil for 90 minutes uncovered.
Yeah. As we have already discussed, I have been way too impatient with my brews. I am now going to follow the minimum 3 week primary method followed by a 1 week cold crash.

My question regarding the pilsner is, what is pilsner malt? Is it specifically grains called "Pilsner" or does it apply to the other pale grains. For instance, my LHBS carries "Rahr 2-Row", "Muntons Pale Malt", and "Weyerman Pilsner". These are all 2-row malts, but does the same DMS standard apply to all?
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:33 PM   #5
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Do you factor dumped batches into your cost/pint?

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Old 01-12-2010, 05:33 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by brrman View Post
Sure you are just not sensitive to a certain type of hops? What hops did you use in both batches? I find Centennial to give a veggie flavor I dislike if not combined with something else - and I did get that taste when I brewed BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde. I sure as hell never dumped it though - it was my taste buds, not the recipe, that had the issue.
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [7.50 %] (60 min)
1.00 oz Cascade [7.50 %] (15 min)
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [7.50 %] (10 min)
0.25 oz Cascade [7.50 %] (10 min)
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [7.50 %] (5 min)
0.50 oz Cascade [7.50 %] (5 min)

I know Centennial is referred to as "super cascade", but I really don't think it's the hops...but who knows. Like Revvy said, it may just be green. However, I did keep BM's Centennial Blond kegged for about a month before dumping it...the flavor didn't improve (as far as the funky aftertaste went).
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:34 PM   #7
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Yeah. As we have already discussed, I have been way too impatient with my brews. I am now going to follow the minimum 3 week primary method followed by a 1 week cold crash.
But you leave out the most important part Keg/bottle conditioning, THAT's where we get rid of green beer tastes, not in the fermenters. Many keggers don't even touch their kegs for the same length of time bottlers end up waiting, it's all about the marrying of flavors.

Didja ever read these?

Revvy's Blog, Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/never-dump-your-beer-patience-virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/



Definition of pilsner;

Quote:
Pilsner malt is a base malt that can be made from 2 or 6 row malt. It gets its characteristics from the drying and curing steps in the malting process, where in the kiln the temperatures are kept lower in comparison to other malts’ productions. The kiln is also well ventilated in Pilsner malt production so it dries out quickly. The malt is cured at lower temperatures too.

What is produced is a very light-colored, highly-modified malt with excellent glucan and protein levels.

Pilsner malt seems to be produced in a number of different countries including Germany, Belgium, The UK, and the US. Without doing an experiment, my guess is that each area produces something that is similar but a little bit different…probably not much different though.

It be used at up to 100% of total grist since its diastatic power tends to be over 100° Lintner (which is the measure of the malt’s ability to break down starch to sugar)

Some suggest a protein rest during the mashing of this malt, but others state that it should produce an excellent wort with a single infusion procedure.

It is recommended to boil your wort for 90 minutes when using Pilsner malt. If your grist has over 50% Pilsner malt in it, then you should plan for a longer boil to combat the production of DMS. DMS is Dimethyl Sulfide and it produces a cooked vegetable/corn aroma in your beer. Not good. Boil for 90 minutes and cool your wort down quickly to stave off DMS as much as possible.

More stats:

Flavor: Ferments clean, some grainy notes

Color:1.4 to 1.9° lovibond

Body: Good body and mouthfeel

Use: All lagers, but especially pilsners. Belgian beers work too.
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Robinson View Post
My question regarding the pilsner is, what is pilsner malt? Is it specifically grains called "Pilsner" or does it apply to the other pale grains. For instance, my LHBS carries "Rahr 2-Row", "Muntons Pale Malt", and "Weyerman Pilsner". These are all 2-row malts, but does the same DMS standard apply to all?
Has to do with the malt kilning and SMM reductions. SMM is the pre-cursor to DMS.
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
But you leave out the most important part Keg/bottle conditioning, THAT's where we get rid of green beer tastes, not in the fermenters. Many keggers don't even touch their kegs for the same length of time bottlers end up waiting, it's all about the marrying of flavors.

Didja ever read these?

Revvy's Blog, Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/never-dump-your-beer-patience-virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/



Definition of pilsner;
Yeah...I've read 'em. They are fantastic. Well...I guess I'll factor in keg conditioning into my timeline as well. Instead of force carbing, I'm gonna switch to the "set it and forget it method". I hear that takes 2 to 3 weeks to get the keg up to proper carb volumes. During that time, I will get the added benefit of extra conditioning time. I have no doubt that it will have a huge impact on the quality of my brews.
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:45 PM   #10
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I am not one to ride the "never dump" train but, more time is definitely needed before you decide. I wait a year at most before dumping anything.

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