The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Decoction questions:

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-15-2012, 01:56 PM   #1
erikrocks
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
erikrocks's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 638
Liked 12 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default Decoction questions:

Hey folks. I'm planning to brew a 16 gallon batch of Oktoberfest Lager this week, and I'm thinking about doing my first decoction. My plan is to mash in and hold at 131 for 20 minutes, then pull the decoction, boil, and add to the MLT to achieve 152 in the full mash. I've read a bunch of stuff on HBT, bust still have a few questions about what I can do and decoctions in general. Here goes:

1. When I put my numbers into BeerSmith, it told me I should pull 13 quarts of mash for the decoction. Has anyone been able to boil that amount of mash on a propane kitchen stovetop? My brew rig is all electric, so I don't have a dedicated burner for decoctions (yet).

2. While I'm boiling my decoction upstairs on the stovetop, what happens to the remaining mash/liquid in my MLT? Should I continue to recirculate (I have a HERMS) at 131?

3. What if it takes a long time to boil the mash on the stove top? Will anything detrimental happen to the liquid in the MLT?

THanks for the help. If all else fails, I'll just go 131 for 30 min and 152 for 60 with a 10 minute mash out and call it a day.

__________________
erikrocks is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-15-2012, 02:32 PM   #2
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,044
Liked 4202 Times on 3059 Posts
Likes Given: 779

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by erikrocks View Post
Hey folks. I'm planning to brew a 16 gallon batch of Oktoberfest Lager this week, and I'm thinking about doing my first decoction. My plan is to mash in and hold at 131 for 20 minutes, then pull the decoction, boil, and add to the MLT to achieve 152 in the full mash. I've read a bunch of stuff on HBT, bust still have a few questions about what I can do and decoctions in general. Here goes:

1. When I put my numbers into BeerSmith, it told me I should pull 13 quarts of mash for the decoction. Has anyone been able to boil that amount of mash on a propane kitchen stovetop? My brew rig is all electric, so I don't have a dedicated burner for decoctions (yet).

2. While I'm boiling my decoction upstairs on the stovetop, what happens to the remaining mash/liquid in my MLT? Should I continue to recirculate (I have a HERMS) at 131?

3. What if it takes a long time to boil the mash on the stove top? Will anything detrimental happen to the liquid in the MLT?

THanks for the help. If all else fails, I'll just go 131 for 30 min and 152 for 60 with a 10 minute mash out and call it a day.
1. I wouldn't wait 20 minutes and then pull the decoction- you'd be at 131 for a LONG time! I'd mash in, stir well, and then proceed to pull a decoction. On my stovetop, I can boil a large volume but you may need to try it first to see if you can do it. If it takes an hour to bring 13 quarts to a boil, for example, it won't work for you with that volume.

2. Yes.

3. Yes- you don't want to leave the mash too long at a protein rest temp.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-15-2012, 02:59 PM   #3
erikrocks
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
erikrocks's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 638
Liked 12 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Thanks. How much can you boil on your stovetop? I remember when I started out three years ago that 7 gallons of wort would not boil on my stovetop. I'm guessng 13 gallons of mash will be difficult as well.

__________________
erikrocks is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-15-2012, 05:42 PM   #4
helibrewer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
helibrewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 3,069
Liked 171 Times on 155 Posts
Likes Given: 39

Default

When I do a single decoction I begin with the batch split 60/40. I bring the 60% amount to the initial rest and leave it there while I bring the remaining 40% to a boil and hold the boil for 10 minutes. I then combine the two and continue with the sacch rest. With a HERMS you'll have no trouble tweeking your sacch rest to whatever temp you want.

__________________
Something is always fermenting....
"It's Bahl Hornin'"

Primary:
Brite Tank/Lagering:
Kegged: Hefeweizen, Chocolate Hazelnut Porter, Kumquat Saison, Tart Cherry Cider, Belgian Tripel, Maibock Bock, Ommegang Abbey Ale Clone, Belgian Golden Strong, German Pils (WLP830)
Bottled: Belgian Quad (Grand Reserve), Derangement (Belgian Dark Strong)
On Deck:
My Site: www.restlesscellars.com
helibrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-15-2012, 05:44 PM   #5
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,044
Liked 4202 Times on 3059 Posts
Likes Given: 779

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by erikrocks View Post
Thanks. How much can you boil on your stovetop? I remember when I started out three years ago that 7 gallons of wort would not boil on my stovetop. I'm guessng 13 gallons of mash will be difficult as well.
I can easily boil 7 gallons on my stovetop, but it takes a long time to get there (like an hour!).

You can break up the decoctions, or use a propane burner. I know that when I do decoctions now (since I have an electric system) I wouldn't go bigger than a 5 gallon batch since I'm also using my stove for decoctions. I brew all indoors.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-18-2012, 08:32 AM   #6
cockybitz
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 294
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 14

Default

well, first, we're talking 13 qts, which is 4.25 gallons. Luckily for the sake of the stove, you'll be bringing this to a boil from 130*F instead of 60*F.

Yooper, care to explain more of why that extended protein rest is bad?

__________________
cockybitz is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-18-2012, 05:49 PM   #7
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,205
Liked 412 Times on 313 Posts
Likes Given: 466

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cockybitz View Post
Yooper, care to explain more of why that extended protein rest is bad?
Almost no malt these days really requires a protein rest. They're almiost all hiughly modified, which means that in essence the protein rest has been done by the maltster. By remaining at a protein rest temp too long, you can actually break down the proteins that give you beer foam and body. I've done it and ended up with a thin, headless beer.
__________________

Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014

Denny is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-18-2012, 05:56 PM   #8
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,044
Liked 4202 Times on 3059 Posts
Likes Given: 779

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
Almost no malt these days really requires a protein rest. They're almiost all hiughly modified, which means that in essence the protein rest has been done by the maltster. By remaining at a protein rest temp too long, you can actually break down the proteins that give you beer foam and body. I've done it and ended up with a thin, headless beer.
Yep.

I think there is one maltster who makes a slightly undermodified malt. The rest are fully modified. By staying too long at a protein rest (even a higher temp one like I typically do), you get the results Denny explained.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-18-2012, 06:23 PM   #9
chessking
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Aurora, Co
Posts: 270
Liked 57 Times on 41 Posts

Default

Why the decoction in the first place? If you just want a richer caramelly malt character, you could cheat with a longer boil (an extra hour or so, and adjust your pre boil volume), or play with the specialty grains, adding some Carafa II Roast malt, or some extra Aromatic (dark Munich ) malt. Also, you can pull some of the first runnings and boil it down in a separate pot to get some kettle carmalization, and then return it to the boil. Be careful with this as it will effect your color.
If you just want to decoct, maybe make a smaller batch?

__________________
chessking is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-18-2012, 06:36 PM   #10
bottlebomber
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: ukiah, CA
Posts: 14,246
Liked 2640 Times on 2068 Posts
Likes Given: 290

Default

You're just going to have to get in there and get your hands dirty. I made 10 gallons of Czech Pilsner at the beginning of the year, I mashed in at 133. Pulled around 2/3s out and brought it to 148 degrees and let it sit there to convert for about 20 minutes(I don't know if this was necessary but it made sense to me) then I gave it a good long boil, until the grains were almost completely dry and sticky with caramel. The whole time my cooler was I the 130's, probably for a good hour. I dumped my mash back in and it came it 154. The result was a burnished gold pilsner that after 2 months of bottle conditioning held the most gorgeous head I have ever seen. It was almost rubbery. And dispute being quite light in color the beer had a depth of malt flavor that melanoidin malt will never replace. I'm pissed that it's gone, I just sent my last 2 bottles off in a trade.

__________________
bottlebomber is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Decoction questions phoenixs4r All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 33 04-14-2012 03:53 PM
Decoction questions iMac6 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 7 03-16-2012 01:38 AM
Decoction questions Bru All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 1 01-13-2012 03:01 PM
Decoction and Mash Out questions Mk010101 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 10 10-21-2011 04:00 PM
Decoction Mashing Questions. Orangevango All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 1 07-12-2009 11:57 PM