Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Decoction Mash Video
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-07-2008, 05:05 PM   #71
TeleTwanger
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 693
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

that protein sludge on top of the mash is freakin' crazy! I love the chalk/iodine test, what a great idea.

__________________
__________________________________________________
Primary: empty
Secondary: DogFish 60 Clone
Up next: The Bestist Bitter
Bottled: Blackout IPA


"Ooo Pretzels and Bier!"-Heidi Klum

TeleTwanger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-07-2008, 05:25 PM   #72
menschmaschine
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,278
Liked 33 Times on 27 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
This is the "workhorse" mash in German brewing today:

dough-in above 57C or directly at 62-63C
63C for 30 - 40 min (maltose rest)
(65 C for ~30 min if very high fermentability is desired)
68-72C for 20 - 60 min (dextrinization rest)
76-78C - mash-out.

The whole mash takes 90 - 120 min.

Kai
Thanks for that. In your experience, what is a typical water:grain ratio for a German brewery in a Pilsner or Helles?... and does it increase with the steps in the mash schedule?
__________________

END TRANSMISSION

menschmaschine is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-07-2008, 09:09 PM   #73
Kaiser
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Kaiser's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pepperell, MA
Posts: 3,904
Liked 114 Times on 71 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by menschmaschine View Post
Thanks for that. In your experience, what is a typical water:grain ratio for a German brewery in a Pilsner or Helles?... and does it increase with the steps in the mash schedule?
4-5 l/kg (2-2.5 qt/lb) and it doesn't change during mashing as direct heat is used to move between the rests.

Kai
Kaiser is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-07-2008, 09:47 PM   #74
menschmaschine
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,278
Liked 33 Times on 27 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
4-5 l/kg (2-2.5 qt/lb) and it doesn't change during mashing as direct heat is used to move between the rests.

Kai
Wow, that seems like a lot compared to what most homebrewers do, even when we do lagers. Is this common throughout German brewing, or do some regions/styles use a lower water:grain ratio?... like Alts or Bocks, for example.
__________________

END TRANSMISSION

menschmaschine is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-07-2008, 11:26 PM   #75
Kaiser
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Kaiser's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pepperell, MA
Posts: 3,904
Liked 114 Times on 71 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by menschmaschine View Post
Wow, that seems like a lot compared to what most homebrewers do, even when we do lagers. Is this common throughout German brewing, or do some regions/styles use a lower water:grain ratio?... like Alts or Bocks, for example.
Yes this is a common ratio for lighter beers. The lower amount of sparge water will also reduce the amount of tannins extracted during sparge. For dark beers the mash tickness may be as low as 3 - 3.5 l/kg (1.5 to 1.75 l/kg) but not thicker as they become difficult to pump and stir.

The latter is the main historical reson for thin mashes in German brewing. B/c of decoction, German brewhouses had to be able to pump the mash as opposed to British brewhouses which mashed and lautered in the same vessel.

Early American home brewing adopted that Britsh style of brewing as it is ideal for the approach of having a single unheated vessel for mashing and lautering. Then craftbrewers adoped this b/c it is easy to build and it is what they did as home brewers. And home brewers keep doing it (the thick mashes I mean) b/c craft brewers do it and many home brewing texts say that the ideal mash thickness is around 1.25 qt/lb.

I gave been saying for a while that, at least for German beers, you should get away from this one-mash-fits all approach that Jamil and Co. are teaching. A thin mash, up to 4.5 l/kg as long as it fits in your MLT and works for the size of beer your are making, may work much better. They are more easy to stir and may even improve efficiency if your efficiency is limited by conversion efficienct (i.e. the % of starch that is converted).

Kai
__________________
BrauKaiser.com - brewing science blog - Twitter - water and mash chemistry calculator
Kaiser is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2008, 12:34 AM   #76
menschmaschine
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,278
Liked 33 Times on 27 Posts

Default

That's great info. Danke, Kai.

__________________

END TRANSMISSION

menschmaschine is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2008, 07:06 AM   #77
Piotr
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Poland, EU
Posts: 463
Liked 4 Times on 3 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
I gave been saying for a while that, at least for German beers, you should get away from this one-mash-fits all approach that Jamil and Co. are teaching. A thin mash, up to 4.5 l/kg as long as it fits in your MLT and works for the size of beer your are making, may work much better.
I see one drawback: thin masch will produce less fermentable wort. I will be a problem in German Pils, which should be really dry.
__________________
Piotr is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2008, 01:59 PM   #78
Kaiser
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Kaiser's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pepperell, MA
Posts: 3,904
Liked 114 Times on 71 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr View Post
I see one drawback: thin masch will produce less fermentable wort. I will be a problem in German Pils, which should be really dry.
Not in my experience. I get about 80-83% attenuation potential in my Pilsner mashes and could get more if I wanted to. In addition to that, in mash experiments I have not seen an attenuation difference between thick and thin mashes. A Pils should be mashed at 2 qt/lb or slightly above if you can.

Kai
__________________
BrauKaiser.com - brewing science blog - Twitter - water and mash chemistry calculator
Kaiser is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2008, 03:02 PM   #79
menschmaschine
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,278
Liked 33 Times on 27 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr View Post
I see one drawback: thin masch will produce less fermentable wort. I will be a problem in German Pils, which should be really dry.
Actually, I understand the opposite to be true. (Not necessarily from experience, but from text.) A thick mash is supposed to produce the best overall extraction, but a thin mash favors maltose, and therefore attenuation.
__________________

END TRANSMISSION

menschmaschine is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2008, 03:37 PM   #80
Piotr
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Poland, EU
Posts: 463
Liked 4 Times on 3 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by menschmaschine View Post
A thick mash is supposed to produce the best overall extraction, but a thin mash favors maltose, and therefore attenuation.
I heard different explanation - in thick mash b-amylase survives longer, so it can longer do the starch-cutting job.
This can be essential, my german pils I mashed 2.5 hours in 62-63*C, and didn't get full convertion, until I elevated temp to 68*C.
__________________
Piotr is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First decoction mash tkone All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 9 03-16-2011 01:30 PM
Decoction Mash for an ALE!?! uwmgdman General Techniques 8 04-22-2010 09:36 PM
What's a decoction mash? Maharg All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 3 09-29-2007 03:38 PM
Anyone use a decoction mash? SpecialEd All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 15 03-27-2007 03:50 AM
My first decoction mash jeffg General Techniques 21 02-25-2007 10:12 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS