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Old 02-25-2011, 04:47 PM   #1
fcwegnm0b
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Default Decoction mash thoughts... boil the whole thing?

Single infusion mashing is getting boring, so I was reading up on decoction mashing. I haven't tried the technique yet, but all my reading brought up an idea.

First, I am to understand the point of doing a "mash out" at ~168F (in any mash, decoction or not) serves to complete conversion and solubilize more sugar, yielding greater efficiency.

Second, I am to understand that boiling a decoction (besides enriching malt flavors) does nothing 'bad' (tannin extraction, etc.) to the beer...

...so after you mash out, why not boil the whole mash, draining your first running at boiling temperature (no sparging, just drain the MLT)? Would this not yield greater lautering efficiency, without any negative consequences? Would a batch sparge afterward raise the pH too much?

If you do a thin mash, these first running could be diluted to your preboil volume, and you're set.

Again, I've never tried anything like this, just wanted to bounce the idea.

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Old 02-25-2011, 05:16 PM   #2
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So you are saying to do something like a single infusion mash and then once conversion takes place boil the mash? I am shooting from the hip saying this, but raising the grain to boiling temp may release more starches in which case your amylase enzyme would have already been destroyed so you would not be able to convert those starches. Of course you may also end up with a Maillard bomb, like a double double dobblebock.

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Old 02-25-2011, 05:39 PM   #3
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raising the grain to boiling temp may release more starches in which case your amylase enzyme would have already been destroyed so you would not be able to convert those starches.
Ah I didn't think about that.. good point. Hence a thick decoction being returned to the main mash for conversion after it's boiled. I hadn't put that all together yet.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:46 PM   #4
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I'm shooting from my hip there though, it would be something to research if it does indeed occur. If it does though, it might give some interesting thoughts to a full decoction wild beer as some of the bugs will greedily chew through the starches.

You want a thick decoction because the amylase enzyme stays behind in the liquid so you make sure there is plenty left to handle the unconverted starches.

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Old 02-25-2011, 06:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bensiff View Post
So you are saying to do something like a single infusion mash and then once conversion takes place boil the mash? I am shooting from the hip saying this, but raising the grain to boiling temp may release more starches in which case your amylase enzyme would have already been destroyed so you would not be able to convert those starches. Of course you may also end up with a Maillard bomb, like a double double dobblebock.
That's the first thing that popped into my mind. In some styles having that unconverted starch might be appropriate.

I also thought maybe the grain would get too soggy/soft and would get stuck more easily.

OK, fcwegnm0b; it was your idea you have to be the guinea pig and try it out.
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:13 PM   #6
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I second the notion, but if it is a Maillard bomb I want credit for the "double double dopplebock" name

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Old 02-25-2011, 11:39 PM   #7
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Ok, I've never even brewed my own batch, but helped some with the ag. Read ALOT! What would happen if one were to instead of remove mash & boil to decoct. Just add to decoct. Start the base malt as the main mash. Start 1st decoction, some base malt, first of darker malts, water. Bring to boil. Add. Start 2nd decoction, some base malt, darkest malt, water. Bring to boil. Add. Wouldn't that stop from killing any amalase at all, while adding goodies?

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Old 02-25-2011, 11:52 PM   #8
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Try a small batch to see what happens. Small batches are a very underrated tool most people overlook.

I have done a couple decoctions myself, both of which were marzen styles, and they were fantastic.

but since it is really time consuming with my gear, I just do a stepped temperature infusion mash, usually 104F-122F-154F.

Its easier and nets me great results.

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Old 02-28-2011, 02:26 PM   #9
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OK, fcwegnm0b; it was your idea you have to be the guinea pig and try it out.
Fair enough. Nothing against small batch experiments, but first... next time I brew I'll pull maybe a pint of mash, check conversion with iodine, bring it to a boil like one would a decoction, and do another starch test. Should be informative. I'll get back with results in time.

Then maybe a small batch would be in order.
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