Dead Starter?

cwhill · 06-27-2008, 02:06 AM

Well brew day is looming..On Saturday I hope to brew. This morning I smacked my Wyeast 2565 Kolsch yeast activator pack. I got home from work expecting a bloated pack to make my starter. Well the pack was just as I left it. No swelling at all, although after I smacked it this morning I could hear some fizzing action in there. I went ahead and made my starter and was cleaning everything in my bucket of freshly made StarSan. Well I wasn't really paying attention to the fact that I amde the StarSan batch with water that was warm and I threw the smack pack in there to sanitize the packet before tearing it open to pour it into the starter. DOH....After I realized what I did, (probably 15 minutes later) I took the temp of the StarSan. It was 95 degrees....Damn I probably just killed all my yeast. I pitched it anyway after I got the packet and starter cooled to about 78 each. It has been a few hours and I can see all the yeast has settled to the bottom and not a single bubble from the airlock. Am I correct in assuming it is probably a lost cause? I went and purchased a backup of the 2565 just in case. How long should I wait for activity? Thanks for any help.

**FireBrewer** · 06-27-2008, 02:15 AM

Even smack-packs are going to take a little bit in terms of lag time. But you can pitch the 2565, it's not going to hurt anything---more yeast is usually not a bad thing.

**ajf** · 06-27-2008, 02:40 AM

95F isn't going to kill your yeast, especially for only 15 minutes.
It can also take smack packs up to a week to swell, depending on the age of the pack.
After pitching an unswelled smack pack, you may have to wait for a while for it to start. A few hours certainly isn't enough. Did you add oxygen to the starter? This really helps yeast to take off. Give it a swirl at every opportunity to keep the yeast in suspension, and you will probably see some activity by Saturday AM. With the price of the yeast, I wouldn't like to add two smack packs to a single brew.
If it hasn't started by Saturday morning, I'd put off the brew for a few more days. The starter won't come to any harm if you keep it going till next week-end

-a.

cwhill · 06-27-2008, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajf

Did you add oxygen to the starter?

I did add oxygen and shook the hell out of it. I agree I hate to add another $7 package of yeast if I don't have to. The package wasn't very old. The package date was 03/08. This is the first liquid yeast I've used so I guess I was expecting this thing to take off like a rocket..I don't really know why. Maybe just the way the advertisements and such read.
I'll be patient and wait it out. I waited until now to create the starter as it seems so much that I've read says to make it 48 hours or so in advance. I didn't realize I could make it even further ahead. I was under the impression it had to be pitched while there was still active fermentation etc.

**ajf** · 06-27-2008, 03:13 AM

Dry yeasts usually take off much faster than liquid because they have a larger number of yeast cells. The liquid yeasts spend quite a bit of time multiplying before they start producing CO2. Chances are that it will be fine by Saturday.
I usually make a 1 liter starter 24 hours before brewing, put it on the stir plate, and pitch the whole thing, but plenty of other people let the starter ferment out, put it in the fridge, decant the clear liquid, and just pitch the slurry. Neither way is right or wrong, just use what works for you.

Good luck,

-a.

cwhill · 06-27-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajf

Dry yeasts usually take off much faster than liquid because they have a larger number of yeast cells. The liquid yeasts spend quite a bit of time multiplying before they start producing CO2. Chances are that it will be fine by Saturday.
I usually make a 1 liter starter 24 hours before brewing, put it on the stir plate, and pitch the whole thing, but plenty of other people let the starter ferment out, put it in the fridge, decant the clear liquid, and just pitch the slurry. Neither way is right or wrong, just use what works for you.

Good luck,

-a.

Thanks for the info on that. I wondered why the dry yeast always seemed more voracious. I just assumed the liquid had a higher count. This morning I checked and I've got some bubbling going on so looks like maybe we're off and running. I gave it another shake (swirl really) this morning too.

nostalgia · 06-27-2008, 01:58 PM

Yep, listen to the gurus

I made a big starter for my current lager, building it up to 3 quarts. I put an airlock on it after adding the third quart and didn't see a single bubble over 3 days.

I pitched it in my lager at 60F then put the lager in my 50F fermenter freezer. After 24 hours there was no visible bubbling in the blowoff tank. After 48 hours the thing had a thick krauesen and was bubbling like an aquarium filter

So relax! Don't worry. You know the rest

-Joe

cwhill · 06-28-2008, 03:22 AM

Got home late tonight about 28 hours after the starter was made. We're cookin with gas now!

The starter looks more like freshly poored brown ginger ale with all the fizz action going on. By tomorrow late morning when it's time to pitch we should be ready to rock! Didn't need the extra yeast pack I bought. Thanks for the input everyone!