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Old 12-19-2012, 08:26 PM   #21
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OK, all of this talk about mash water pH has brought me to another piece of the puzzle which might make a lot more sense now. I have brewed this beer before using extract and it came out fine. Does that make logical sense? I gotta start studying water chemistry now.

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Old 12-19-2012, 08:39 PM   #22
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there you go. You cant extract tannins from DME/LME. Your getting your off flavors from your mash.
Read palmers How to Brew. especially chapter 15 here (older version).
You can use any water profile spreadsheet off the web. I started with EZ water and now use Bru'n Water

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Old 12-19-2012, 08:47 PM   #23
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Your water appears to be from a softener. Higher than normal sodium and very low calcium/magnesium. I have very low cations in my water and it always took three or more weeks for my beer to be drinkable. Since I started adding salts to get my calcium above 50 ppm I can try (and say wow) my beer around 4 days. I know it's not fully carbed but it's way better than before water additions.

The other thing I notice about you water is the Bicarbonates are high, which will lead to a high mash PH. I don't know what the high sodium levels will doo to your flavor, but I suggest you read about water chem. and at least add a tsp of gypsum and caciulm chloride to your mash.

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Old 12-19-2012, 08:56 PM   #24
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One more thing.

I really like Kaiser's water calculater

Brun water is good also, though I haven't used it as much.

I do not really like Palmer's EZwater though. He put too much emphasis on RA and I think RA is a result of the other factors. Plus it doesn't have a spot for table salt (NaCl) which can be used to increase chlorides which will effect beer flavor but not mash PH or RA.

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Old 12-19-2012, 09:06 PM   #25
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If you are using softened water, STOP. A water softener removes calcium and magnesium, which can be beneficial, with sodium, which is undesired at high levels.

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Old 12-19-2012, 10:31 PM   #26
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I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this.... but are you somehow removing the chlorine/chloramine from your water? It does look like you are using softened (bypass this) municipal water (which will have some disinfectant in it). That was my first thought before even getting to point #2.

I light delicate style will leave chlorophenols nowhere to hide. I am sensitive and can pick them out like a kick to the face. See the sticky in the Brew Science forum about Campden tablets. This is a quick and easy route to eliminate chlorine or chloramine in seconds.

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Old 12-19-2012, 10:34 PM   #27
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Also, don't just calibrate your thermometers in ice water and boiling water. Calibrate your HLT thermometer to 170, your MLT thermometer to 150, and your BK thermometer to 65. You'd be surprised how far off even a "nice" thermometer can be in the middle of the range. If you're not certain of mash pH, a combination of oops-I-just-sparged-at-190 could mean a nice tannin beer.

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Old 12-19-2012, 10:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotPushrods
Also, don't just calibrate your thermometers in ice water and boiling water. Calibrate your HLT thermometer to 170, your MLT thermometer to 150, and your BK thermometer to 65. You'd be surprised how far off even a "nice" thermometer can be in the middle of the range. If you're not certain of mash pH, a combination of oops-I-just-sparged-at-190 could mean a nice tannin beer.
It was my understanding that at the time of sparging, all conversion has already taken place so tannins aren't an issue. Ive personally sparged with near boiling water with no negative effects.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:11 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyDay View Post
It was my understanding that at the time of sparging, all conversion has already taken place so tannins aren't an issue. Ive personally sparged with near boiling water with no negative effects.
Tannins are not related to conversion, they are a polyphenol in the husks of the barley. Increased temperature and pH make them more soluble, and more easily extracted into the wort. Their pKa is quite high, and need a higher pH to really become a problem.

I've tasted a very tannic beer before, and it's quite apparent. You can, fortunately, fine out a lot of it with a combination of gelatin and PolyClar (PVPP) if that is the problem.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:20 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotPushrods
Also, don't just calibrate your thermometers in ice water and boiling water. Calibrate your HLT thermometer to 170, your MLT thermometer to 150, and your BK thermometer to 65. You'd be surprised how far off even a "nice" thermometer can be in the middle of the range. If you're not certain of mash pH, a combination of oops-I-just-sparged-at-190 could mean a nice tannin beer.
Ok, I know how to calibrate to the extremes, but give me some ideas on calibrating to the temps in the mashing ranges.
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